VILLAMARV Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 26 minutes ago, mjmooney said: So, should I do three runs of two miles from home, two runs of three miles from home, or oneun of six miles from home? Show off. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 25 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I'm sure I'm missing something, but why would it make any difference? Exercise as much as you want. If you're east of offa's dyke of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seat68 Posted May 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 10, 2020 4 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 31 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said: If you're east of offa's dyke of course Yes, that's true, though frankly the Welsh government should change that regulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Yes, that's true, though frankly the Welsh government should change that regulation. Law surely? Luckily, snowy will be along to clear it up for us Confusing though isn't it. (I think they* said it changes tomorrow) *The Senedd people 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 20 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Yes, that's true, though frankly the Welsh government should change that regulation. Typical saes, thinking they know what’s best for others. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted May 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 10, 2020 A really useful piece from an American expert on where risks occur. I've provided some excerpts below, but you should read the whole thing, as it's very readable and contains a lot of useful information, including clear case studies of infections (and some support for the 'singing causes more transmission' thesis I was on about the other day): The Risks - Know Them - Avoid Them 'We know most people get infected in their own home. A household member contracts the virus in the community and brings it into the house where sustained contact between household members leads to infection. But where are people contracting the infection in the community? I regularly hear people worrying about grocery stores, bike rides, inconsiderate runners who are not wearing masks.... are these places of concern? Well, not really. [...] So now let’s get to the crux of it. Where are the personal dangers from reopening? When you think of outbreak clusters, what are the big ones that come to mind? Most people would go to the cruise ships. But you would be wrong. Ship outbreaks don’t even land in the top 50 outbreaks to date. The biggest outbreaks are in prisons, religious ceremonies, and workplaces, such a meat packing facilities and call centers. Any environment that is enclosed, with poor air circulation and high density of people, spells trouble. The biggest super-spreading events are: Meat packing: In meat processing plants, densely packed workers must communicate to one another amidst the deafening drum of industrial machinery and a cold-room virus-preserving environment. There are now outbreaks in 115 facilities across 23 states, 5000+ workers infected, with 20 dead. (ref) Weddings, funerals, birthdays: 10% of early spreading events Business networking: Face-to-face business networking like the Biogen Conference in Boston in March. [...] Indoor spaces, with limited air exchange or recycled air and lots of people, are concerning from a transmission standpoint. We know that 60 people in a volleyball court-sized room (choir) results in massive infections. Same situation with the restaurant and the call center. Social distancing guidelines don't hold in indoor spaces where you spend a lot of time, as people on the opposite side of the room were infected. The principle is viral exposure over an extended period of time. In all these cases, people were exposed to the virus in the air for a prolonged period (hours). Even if they were 50 feet away (choir or call center), even a low dose of the virus in the air reaching them, over a sustained period, was enough to cause infection and in some cases, death. Social distancing rules are really to protect you with brief exposures or outdoor exposures. In these situations there is not enough time to achieve the infectious viral load when you are standing 6 feet apart or where wind and the infinite outdoor space for viral dilution reduces viral load. The effects of sunlight, heat, and humidity on viral survival, all serve to minimize the risk to everyone when outside. When assessing the risk of infection (via respiration) at the grocery store or mall, you need to consider the volume of the air space (very large), the number of people (restricted), how long people are spending in the store (workers - all day; customers - an hour). Taken together, for a person shopping: the low density, high air volume of the store, along with the restricted time you spend in the store, means that the opportunity to receive an infectious dose is low. But, for the store worker, the extended time they spend in the store provides a greater opportunity to receive the infectious dose and therefore the job becomes more risky. Basically, as the work closures are loosened, and we start to venture out more, possibly even resuming in-office activities, you need to look at your environment and make judgments. How many people are here, how much airflow is there around me, and how long will I be in this environment. If you are in an open floorplan office, you really need critically assess the risk (volume, people, and airflow). If you are in a job that requires face-to-face talking or even worse, yelling, you need to assess the risk. If you are sitting in a well ventilated space, with few people, the risk is low. If I am outside, and I walk past someone, remember it is “dose and time” needed for infection. You would have to be in their airstream for 5+ minutes for a chance of infection. While joggers may be releasing more virus due to deep breathing, remember the exposure time is also less due to their speed.' more on link (please do read it all): https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them What we need is less park-shaming, and more pressure on employers who are planning to reopen offices to make those offices safe according to these factors. You are far, far, far more likely to catch this virus, or spread this virus, in the office than you are in the park or your street. 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said: Law surely? Luckily, snowy will be along to clear it up for us The regulations - The Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Wales) Regulations 2020 - are law. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 hour ago, snowychap said: If that is the Government guidance then one would hope and expect the regulations to remove the restriction about having a 'reasonable excuse' to leave or be outside of the place where you are living otherwise it's utterly meaningless. Again it just looks like plausible deniability to me. They know this will mean people will start going out more. But there’s enough words in there that they can say “well we did tell you not to go out if possible, and to be alert and that. We said all the right things” 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubbs Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 That's the problem with this government though isn't it. Lots of words and very little action. Reminds me of watching Villa managed by Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bannedfromHandV Posted May 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, dubbs said: That's the problem with this government though isn't it. Lots of words and very little action. Reminds me of watching Villa managed by Bruce. I wondered how long it would take for the blame to fall back to ol’ Brucey 4 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 10, 2020 I knew Bruce had something to do with all this 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: A really useful piece from an American expert on where risks occur. Though it does say on his home page that she's a Prof of Biology but he isn't claiming to be an expert on Coronavirus, medicine or preparedness whilst getting all info directly from experts in their fields. Allowing for that and accepting that what he's saying is correct and duly informed (which I am), I return to a point I made in an earlier exchange about people being out in public spaces but keeping their distance and having picnics, sunbathing, spending all day out, this is what is said about bogs, including public bogs: Quote A Bathroom: Bathrooms have a lot of high touch surfaces, door handles, faucets, stall doors. So fomite transfer risk in this environment can be high. We still do not know whether a person releases infectious material in feces or just fragmented virus, but we do know that toilet flushing does aerosolize many droplets. Treat public bathrooms with extra caution (surface and air), until we know more about the risk. I think the most important points I take from the link, which you quoted above, are: Quote ...Social distancing guidelines don't hold in indoor spaces where you spend a lot of time, as people on the opposite side of the room were infected. ... Social distancing rules are really to protect you with brief exposures or outdoor exposures. I don't think that is what is being promoted in people's minds when distancing is talked about. It would appear to me that the concept is being put out there as applying equally as a precaution wherever one is, inside or outside. Edited May 10, 2020 by snowychap Eek - assumptions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 The original viral load. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 How long are those like myself going to be working from home for I wonder? The alarm at 7:00 before logging on by 7:03 is going to be sorely missed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 9 covid related deaths reported for Wales for yesterday. When lock down was called on 23rd March, the cumulative total up to and including that day was 16. Doesn’t feel like the right time to be loosening any laws or guidance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) The reproduction rate in Germany is now at 1.1 just days after lifting some lock down restrictions. I'd imagine we will be in a similar position with in the next week or so. Edited May 10, 2020 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubbs Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 I can work from home no problem, but whilst on furlough I'm not allowed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 22 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Doesn’t feel like the right time to be loosening any laws or guidance. I completely agree, but is there anything being loosened? Garden centres reopening seems like it’s happening. Everything else the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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