Generic Virus Thread

[tinker]

8 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Because tens of thousands of people with unknown health conditions would die unnecessarily along with hundreds of other otherwise healthy people who would also die because it will kill even some young and healthy people too. 

And Hospitals would be utterly overwhelmed by hundreds of thousands of people needing treatment. 

People need to get away from this attitude that unless you have a health condition you just drop a couple of paracetamol and get on with it. 

Even young healthy people will become gravely ill. 

I dont know why people have this attitude , when all the experts are telling us the opposite. Its going to kill thousands and keep the virus in circulations for months the. I can only assume its the type of people who have enough toilet paper to last 10 years and or live on a desert island . Their definitely not over 70 or at obvious risk of serious illness, at least not on the surface. 

[Awol]

12 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Because tens of thousands of people with unknown health conditions would die unnecessarily along with hundreds of other otherwise healthy people who would also die because it will kill even some young and healthy people too. 

And Hospitals would be utterly overwhelmed by hundreds of thousands of people needing treatment. 

People need to get away from this attitude that unless you have a health condition you just drop a couple of paracetamol and get on with it. 

Even young healthy people will become gravely ill. 

Nurse working in South Wales was on the radio this morning. She said that NHS data from across the UK (presumably internal) showed that 50% of patients going on to ventilators weren’t recovering. Also that many of those cases in her area were in 30s-50s bracket, youngest was in their 20s.

I’m not buying this underlying conditions narrative at all. For reasons we don’t yet understand it’s Russian roulette once you get infected, but the older you are the more chambers are loaded.

[Jareth]

Anyone notice Hancock today stating they won't just accept any old antibody test unless it works. It was only 7 days ago that they were selling us the 'we've acquired 3.5 million antibody tests' line. They basically bought the same that Spain bought, but more of them. The absolute f****** muppets. 

[fightoffyour]

16 hours ago, Jareth said:

Ocado just delivered a shed load of craft beer for me, alongside essentials. We have a 80 year old with COPD in the household so that gave me the necessary moral cover. 

What are we drinking? Don’t know what they stock these days.

the Polish craft beer scene is incredible right now, I’m absolutely stocked with amazing beers. Counting the hours already....

[Phil Silvers]

If we were to carry on as normal, the virus could spread easier and those at more risk simply put, have much weaker immune systems, so if they get it, they have less chance of survival, that's my view, quite a simple one. Making millions stay at home is the best solution according to the scientific bean counters.

As for younger people getting it and not surviving...…… Most people that I know, say 25 to 60 age group, me included, only ever go to a Doctor as a last resort, they just get on with it and live with a condition they do not even know they have. 

There are also different levels of this virus, I know 3 people that have had it and after 4 days they are almost back to normal.

Until we have the testing in place and then the virus killer meds in place, we must stay follow the experts guidance.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Phil Silvers

[Jareth]

Just now, fightoffyour said:

What are we drinking? Don’t know what they stock these days.

the Polish craft beer scene is incredible right now, I’m absolutely stocked with amazing beers. Counting the hours already....

I'm fond of Brewdog Elvis Juice, 6.5%, fruity and bitter.

Meanwhile - Hancock again - moving the goalposts to justify the lack of testing. I am so angry with these sheisters. 

There are currently around 8,000 patients a day who need to be tested for Covid-19 but with social distancing measures in place it is hoped that number will flatten out, the health secretary said.

Matt Hancock told BBC Breakfast that around 1,500 frontline healthcare staff are being tested daily since centres opened at the weekend but that number is “ramping up fast”.

He added:

At the moment we think that there are around 35,000 frontline NHS staff who aren’t in work due to coronavirus. The number is much smaller than some of the anecdotal evidence that we’ve been hearing, although of course there may be pockets.

He said “over the next couple of weeks” the testing figures for frontline staff “should” rise to thousands a day.

 

[pas5898]

12 minutes ago, Awol said:

Nurse working in South Wales was on the radio this morning. She said that NHS data from across the UK (presumably internal) showed that 50% of patients going on to ventilators weren’t recovering. Also that many of those cases in her area were in 30s-50s bracket, youngest was in their 20s.

I’m not buying this underlying conditions narrative at all. For reasons we don’t yet understand it’s Russian roulette once you get infected, but the older you are the more chambers are loaded.

4/5 people reading this will have "underlying health issues". Whether it's high blood pressure, Obesity, asthma, type 2 diabetes.

I'm 5'11 just under 13 stone therefore I'm clinically slightly obese. Used to play rugby so carry a bit of muscle, gym usually 3/4 times a week, football twice a week. Definitely don't consider myself fat at all.

I'm a fairly normal person. Yet if I succumbed to this illness I'd definitely go into the underlying health issues category. 

[Jareth]

Just now, pas5898 said:

4/5 people reading this will have "underlying health issues". Whether it's high blood pressure, Obesity, asthma, type 2 diabetes.

I'm 5'11 just under 13 stone therefore I'm clinically slightly obese. Used to play rugby so carry a bit of muscle, gym usually 3/4 times a week, football twice a week. Definitely don't consider myself fat at all.

I'm a fairly normal person. Yet if I succumbed to this illness I'd definitely go into the underlying health issues category. 

You're ok, the BMI this is based on is quite high - and I know this because I instantly calculated my BMI on hearing it!

[tonyh29]

21 minutes ago, Awol said:

I’m not buying this underlying conditions narrative at all. For reasons we don’t yet understand it’s Russian roulette once you get infected, but the older you are the more chambers are loaded.

I posted a couple of days back markers they were finding in those that died as opposed to underlying health issues  ... I can’t rem exactly what they were know but there were 3 of them .. I guess the Russian roulette still comes into play as chances are you wouldn’t know if you have these markers 

[Stevo985]

25 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Anyone notice Hancock today stating they won't just accept any old antibody test unless it works. It was only 7 days ago that they were selling us the 'we've acquired 3.5 million antibody tests' line. They basically bought the same that Spain bought, but more of them. The absolute f****** muppets. 

Also "a bad test is worse than no test"

Yeah fine. But where is the good test?!

[Awol]

46 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Anyone notice Hancock today stating they won't just accept any old antibody test unless it works. It was only 7 days ago that they were selling us the 'we've acquired 3.5 million antibody tests' line. They basically bought the same that Spain bought, but more of them. The absolute f****** muppets. 

Everybody buying from China has had the same problem, they’re flogging garbage at top dollar prices - which is pretty necky of them all things considered. I doubt we knew weeks ago when ordering them that they wouldn’t work, and every state is desperately competing for stuff needed to try and protect their own people.

Paris cancelled an NHS order from a face mask manufacturer to keep them in France,  then the US gazumped a French order for PPE from the Far East. Germany blocked exports of med kit to Italy, and on it goes. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Awol

[Awol]

19 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Yeah fine. But where is the good test?!

Being invented. Or at least a version that can be mass produced AND work reliably. 

[sidcow]

19 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

 

Yeah fine. But where is the good test?!

Well that's the rub isn't it. Who knows yet what is a good reliable test, and then how the feck do you make them, buy them, transport them then distribute them by the tens of thousands in a matter of days and at a time when every other country is also trying to get hold of them. 

It's some undertaking. 

[HanoiVillan]

22 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Also "a bad test is worse than no test"

Yeah fine. But where is the good test?!

 

3 minutes ago, Awol said:

Everybody buying from China has had the same problem, they’re flogging garbage at top dollar prices - which is pretty necky of them all things considered. I doubt we knew weeks ago when ordering them that they wouldn’t work, and every state is desperately competing for stuff needed to try and protect their own people.

The Paris cancelled an NHS order from a face mask manufacturer to keep them in France,  then the US gazumped a French order for PPE from the Far East. Germany blocked exports of med kit to Italy, and on it goes. 

As you note though, this isn't just China. There appear to be very few companies in the world that can create these tests, and none of them are in the UK. Several are in America, where the government has forbidden export. Some are in China, which appear to be turning out garbage that's worse than a coin toss. Some appear to be in Thailand, which is supposedly where our government is investigating next. And one appears to be in Germany, which as I understand it, is essentially manufacturing for the entire world at this point.

[Awol]

2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

 

As you note though, this isn't just China. There appear to be very few companies in the world that can create these tests, and none of them are in the UK. Several are in America, where the government has forbidden export. Some are in China, which appear to be turning out garbage that's worse than a coin toss. Some appear to be in Thailand, which is supposedly where our government is investigating next. And one appears to be in Germany, which as I understand it, is essentially manufacturing for the entire world at this point.

“Globalisation: it’s a bit sh*t really.” 

Coming to election literature near you. 

[HanoiVillan]

1 minute ago, Awol said:

“Globalisation: it’s a bit sh*t really.” 

Coming to election literature near you. 

You would certainly like to think that we would have a shift in thinking about national infrastructure after this pandemic, for sure.

[snowychap]

15 minutes ago, Awol said:

“Globalisation: it’s a bit sh*t really.” 

Coming to election literature near you. 

I don't see why this is laid at the door of 'globalisation'.

If anything, it would appear that the issues are that there isn't enough expertise in terms of manufacturing these kinds of tests across the world, the (natural but counterproductive and inherently daft) retreat to protectionism and the attempt to exercise power by those that have more of it (USA purchasing power as per an example already given).

Whilst one lesson to be learnt from this may well be more preparedness across the world, if other lessons are to further retreat in to isolationism, protectionism and more stringently applied borders and to accept the throwing about of weight by those that have it (rather than more international response & preparedness) then we should expect more lives to be lost or ruined because of that 'response' than the illness itself.

Edited April 3, 2020 by snowychap

[markavfc40]

Only 36 and no underlying health conditions. Leaves behind 3 children.

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by markavfc40

[tonyh29]

27 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

 

As you note though, this isn't just China. There appear to be very few companies in the world that can create these tests, and none of them are in the UK. Several are in America, where the government has forbidden export. Some are in China, which appear to be turning out garbage that's worse than a coin toss. Some appear to be in Thailand, which is supposedly where our government is investigating next. And one appears to be in Germany, which as I understand it, is essentially manufacturing for the entire world at this point.

I read the other day about a country ending up purchasing loads of test kits that were infected with Corona virus !!  
I don’t think it was 1st April when I read this article 

Edited April 3, 2020 by tonyh29

[Awol]

4 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I don't see why this is laid at the door of 'globalisation'.

If anything, it would appear that the issues are that there isn't enough expertise in terms of manufacturing these kinds of tests across the world, the (natural but counterproductive and inherently daft) retreat to protectionism and the attempt to exercise power by those that have more of it (USA purchasing power as per an example already given).

Whilst one lesson to be learnt from this may well be more preparedness across the world, if other lessons are to further retreat in to isolationism, protectionism and more stringently applied borders and to accept the throwing about of weight by those that have it (rather than more international response & preparedness) then we should expect more lives to be lost or ruined because of that 'response' than the illness itself.

It was caricatured slogan to represent the political response to a complex problem this pandemic has highlighted; pursuing competitive advantage in the economy to its logical conclusion leaves states  exposed in times of crisis.

As realists (in the academic sense) have always argued, when the chips are down the political unit of greatest importance is the state, what it can do internally and how it can leverage its power externally. 

The blunt truth of that is visible everywhere as governments of all types pursue the self-interest of their populations. That doesn’t rule out cooperation between states where it serves the interests of both, but in moments of crisis that national unit is the castle into which all governments (the ones responsible for protecting us) retreat. 

Not saying it’s good or bad, it’s just  what’s happening - and realists argue, will always happen.