Generic Virus Thread

[Danwichmann]

16 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

But right now aren't we talking about a theoretical danger of vaccine resistant variants? While it seems that the South African strain is more resistant, the people who have caught it after having the vaccine only experienced mild symptoms (if they even got infected as they still have some protection) and as far as I can find in research, no deaths in such cases have been recorded.

There could always be a new variant, sure. But right now that doesn't seem to affect the vaccinated population badly.

Theoretical maybe, but it's new variants are popping up all the time and some of them are going to be vaccine resistant and serious if people from all over the place start mixing freely. Then what about the unvaccinated populations (?I.e, most of the world). Open up travel, vaccinated travellers can still carry the virus to unvaccinated populations. Just having the west vaccinated is not enough. There needs to be a serious effort to get everyone vaccinated and that is not happening.

[StefanAVFC]

Viruses mutate. It's what they do.

If we're being locked down because of a risk of mutations that are vaccine resistant, we will be in lockdown forever.

I'm more talking about restrictions between two countries with high vaccine uptake, as are being floated recently. Nonsense.

Edited May 4, 2021 by StefanAVFC

[villa4europe]

If the EU open up their borders then I'm not sure how they will control it based on brits being able to travel to Portugal in May then Spain and france in June 

[Danwichmann]

My perspective is going to be different because I'm sitting here in Nepal and frankly shitting myself at the moment because the situation is seriously scary. I know if I get sick there is almost zero chance of getting help, so anything that could increase the risk in South Asia, South America or Africa is going to get a negative reaction from me. Focus on getting the world vaccinated, then you can have your international holidays. Until then it's pretty low down on my list of priorities. 

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, Danwichmann said:

Focus on getting the world vaccinated, then you can have your international holidays. Until then it's pretty low down on my list of priorities. 

International holidays are also low on my priority list.

But seeing my dad and my kid seeing his grandparents is pretty high. 

I can't help the fact that some countries haven't had the vaccines and I'm sorry you are in that situation. But UK has had the vaccines, so more freedom should be given to us as we pose little risk to anyone.

[Danwichmann]

1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

International holidays are also low on my priority list.

But seeing my dad and my kid seeing his grandparents is pretty high. 

I can't help the fact that some countries haven't had the vaccines and I'm sorry you are in that situation. But UK has had the vaccines, so more freedom should be given to us as we pose little risk to anyone.

There are certainly some good reasons for travel and blanket bans aren't the answer, but it needs to be a cautious approach. God knows, I'd like to escape from here if there were any flights. 

I don't blame anyone for taking the vaccine or think it's their fault, I'll take any opportunity I can to get jabbed, but I am angry that the west has ordered millions more vaccines than it needs and countries that are in absolute crisis can't get any. Some of the complaints about restrictions (and I'm not particularly referring to you, I only dip in this thread now and then and have no idea what your general position is) don't sit right while we're burning bodies in car parks and putting covid patients 3 to a bed.

[Mic09]

3 minutes ago, Danwichmann said:

There are certainly some good reasons for travel and blanket bans aren't the answer, but it needs to be a cautious approach. God knows, I'd like to escape from here if there were any flights. 

I don't blame anyone for taking the vaccine or think it's their fault, I'll take any opportunity I can to get jabbed, but I am angry that the west has ordered millions more vaccines than it needs and countries that are in absolute crisis can't get any. Some of the complaints about restrictions (and I'm not particularly referring to you, I only dip in this thread now and then and have no idea what your general position is) don't sit right while we're burning bodies in car parks and putting covid patients 3 to a bed.

It's a horrible situation and I hope you/any close ones are ok. 

At the same time, in some parts of the world it isn't a horrible situation anymore. 

So I don't think that the parts of the world which have very little risk should suffer governmental restrictions if there is no/little data to back their policies.

As for helping other countries like India, sure, I am all for that, but I am not knowledgeable enough to know how so I will leave that to others. Let's say UK gave up 50 million vaccines, wouldn't that be a drop in the ocean of India's needs? Also, UK isn't fully vaccinated yet, so can a UK Government risk lives of people here to save others? 

Difficult questions which I have no answers for. 

[HanoiVillan]

I think it's fair to say that the situations in Europe and the situations in South Asia are very different at the moment. I don't think it makes sense for travel restrictions between the UK and France (to pick a random example) to be limited by concerns about the situation in India.

However, @Danwichmann makes a very good point about global vaccine distribution. We need a] less competition (between countries and between vaccine manufacturers, and especially of the 'they were our enemies in the Cold War so of course we won't use the Russian vaccine' variety), b] more cooperation (a global vaccine summit that includes both Russia and China), c] more transparency of trial data (mostly reasonable though not perfect in the West, non-existent in China), and d] transparency about production processes, which could be done via massive lump sum payments to pharma companies in exchange for surrendering patents.

Obviously none of that is going to happen, but that's what it would mean to really take global vaccination as seriously as possible.

[StefanAVFC]

Yeah I agree with the above.

Not to sound too crass, but I don't understand why there should be travel restrictions between England and Poland, if both have the situation contained with high vaccine uptake, because Nepal is in crisis.

[Danwichmann]

6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Yeah I agree with the above.

Not to sound too crass, but I don't understand why there should be travel restrictions between England and Poland, if both have the situation contained with high vaccine uptake, because Nepal is in crisis.

I've no issue with travel corridors or arrangements between safer countries, but it's far too early to talk of travel going back to normal because most of the world isn't in a normal situation. There still need to be limits on mobility. Free travel between safer countries sure but restrictions elsewhere. It's talk of normality that gets my back up at the moment, and a general anger at western governments that are hoarding vaccines and holding up efforts for free patents, wider manufacturing etc in the name of profit. 

[Danwichmann]

14 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

 Let's say UK gave up 50 million vaccines, wouldn't that be a drop in the ocean of India's needs?

That would vaccinate the whole of Nepal, or some other countries in similar situations. India obviously has a crazy population, but they're also the largest vaccine manufacturer in the world so if blocks on materials were lifted (the US has been holding up exports of some of the materials needed) and intellectual property rights done away with they could get a lot out quite quickly.

To be clear, I've no problem with people being able to travel to see family (I was lucky enough to be able to travel to the UK last year to see my Dad before he died) or travel between safer countries. But any talk of normality is premature because it can only be a limited normal until it includes everyone.

[sharkyvilla]

As far as I understand it, isn't it going to be fairly relaxed when it comes to travelling to other countries that are on top of the virus anyway with the traffic light system?  Just a couple of tests to make sure you haven't brought anything back with you.

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

As far as I understand it, isn't it going to be fairly relaxed when it comes to travelling to other countries that are on top of the virus anyway with the traffic light system?  Just a couple of tests to make sure you haven't brought anything back with you.

Tests at the cost of 120 quid a pop. That isn't relaxed. It's a tax on the poorer.

[Mic09]

13 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Tests at the cost of 120 quid a pop. That isn't relaxed. It's a tax on the poorer.

Yup. 

Virus is also not contagious to the rich who have no problem with paying £5k.

[Mister_a]

Saw this pasted over a guidance board at a local park, which made me laugh.

 

[fightoffyour]

58 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Tests at the cost of 120 quid a pop. That isn't relaxed. It's a tax on the poorer.

Not to mention that (and yes this a reasonable assumption rather than a data-backed scientific calculation) a vaccinated person travelling to a mostly vaccinated country is far more likely to cause serious injury or death to themselves and/or someone else by driving to and from a PCR test centre on day 2 after their arrival than they are by catching Covid and spreading it to someone else who ends up hospitalised.

[bickster]

1 hour ago, Mister_a said:

Saw this pasted over a guidance board at a local park, which made me laugh.

 

Anti-vax Cosmic Scally f***tards The White Rose Group who are often confused with the Catholic Church Antivax Group The White Rose UK

Both taking their names from an Underground Anti-Nazi movement in Hitler's Germany.

Both are just a bunch of dangerous bellends pushing fake news and bullshit

[Mister_a]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Anti-vax Cosmic Scally f***tards The White Rose Group who are often confused with the Catholic Church Antivax Group The White Rose UK

Both taking their names from an Underground Anti-Nazi movement in Hitler's Germany.

Both are just a bunch of dangerous bellends pushing fake news and bullshit

Righto, not allowed to post anything funny ever again without checking first the names of the people who posted the original.

Have you considered having a day off?

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, Mister_a said:

Righto, not allowed to post anything funny ever again without checking first the names of the people who posted the original.

Have you considered having a day off?

Who said you weren't allowed to post it? All I did was point out who was behind it and their agenda because I think that it's important to know. I'd say following your own advice regards provenance is an extremely good idea when it comes to propaganda

I'm on holiday today, thanks

[Mister_a]

2 minutes ago, bickster said:

Who said you weren't allowed to post it? All I did was point out who was behind it and their agenda because I think that it's important to know. I'd say following your own advice regards provenance is an extremely good idea when it comes to propaganda

I'm on holiday today, thanks

Propoganda, lol.

Enjoy your day off.