Douglas Luiz

[avfc1982am]

I think Dougie is a scapegoat when the midfield doesn't perform at 23 and playing out of position I think people are very harsh on the lad. Although JR got the plaudits(rightly so) I felt Luiz was the only one doing much of the dirty work last night. McGinn was a lot poorer than Luiz imo.

[Spoony]

If he doesn’t sign the new contract I wouldn’t massively miss him. He’s still young and I’d like to see him competing for places perhaps slightly further forward, but if we lose him I won’t be too upset about it. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

I like him and have defended him many times in the role he is playing but he just keeps switching off and it’s costing us. Nakamba whilst nowhere near as good technically is always aware of who’s around him when we haven’t got the ball. That second Leeds goal doesn’t happen if he is on the pitch. 

[A'Villan]

I don't think over a season we perform half as well as a collective unit with Marvellous in, instead of Dougie Luiz.

And given that I think Gerrard is going to opt for a passing game as a means to keep possession out of our opponents reach, as well as creating opportunities for us.

It's Dougie all day, every day.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Me and @TRO have had many a debate about Luiz in that role and whilst I think he can do that job. I don’t think he is doing that job. Way too many times he is switching off and let midfielders run past him. It’s his job to stop this happening and we know he can do it because he did it after lockdown.

A good DM doesn’t have to be a tough tackler and over 6 foot in my opinion. He just has to read the game well and know which spaces too cover.  Nakamba is brilliant at it. 

Maybe it’s just not in Luiz’s game after all.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Vive_La_Villa

[CVByrne]

17 hours ago, Spoony said:

If he doesn’t sign the new contract I wouldn’t massively miss him. He’s still young and I’d like to see him competing for places perhaps slightly further forward, but if we lose him I won’t be too upset about it. 

Agreed because he's an 8 not a 6 and we've plenty of talent at 8 with JJ, McGinn, Sanson, Chukwuemeka. If we signed Bissouma he can play 8 easily too and we'd play Nakamba at 6. 

[gwi1890]

19 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

I think Dougie is a scapegoat when the midfield doesn't perform at 23 and playing out of position I think people are very harsh on the lad. Although JR got the plaudits(rightly so) I felt Luiz was the only one doing much of the dirty work last night. McGinn was a lot poorer than Luiz imo.

Tbh I thought McGinn was doing the dirty work

[Zatman]

11 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

Tbh I thought McGinn was doing the dirty work

McGinn was dreadful, won a couple of eye catching 50-50s that actually were going nowhere but on the whole he was the worst player on the pitch 

[OutByEaster?]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

Agreed because he's an 8 not a 6 and we've plenty of talent at 8 with JJ, McGinn, Sanson, Chukwuemeka. If we signed Bissouma he can play 8 easily too and we'd play Nakamba at 6. 

I'm a  bit concerned at the way in which Nakamba is being elevated during his absence - he had three very good games prior to his injury, but prior to that he's shown nothing like the kind of form or ability that would make him a regular starter.

I think Luiz is probably better as an eight than a six, but I don't really think we play with two eights and a six, I think we play a line of three midfielders supporting two number tens - they provide that support in different ways sure - Ramsey's running power will see him making forward runs more than McGinn or Luiz for example, but I don't think any of them are specifically a six or an eight in the way we think of that.

The idea that we'd sign Bissouma and play Nakamba seems to me really unlikely, like signing Coutinho and playing Chukwuemeka, right now, I'd consider Nakamba our number five midfielder - behind Ramsey, Luiz, McGinn and Sanson - I think Iroegbanum has the ability to surpass him next season.

If we sign Bissouma, he'd add an excellent physical presence in our midfield, something that we lack, I think Ramsey has now played himself into one of the other spots leaving McGinn and Luiz to compete for the final one - on recent form I'd go with Luiz, although I think McGinn has the ability to rise to that challenge. I think having those four as our primary group would be excellent - we can rotate and have cover - with Sanson then available from the bench or if we need more cover and Iroegbanum coming through and Chukwuemeka perhaps developing into a deeper lying player, I find it really difficult to envisage a future role for Nakamba.

I still think there's a chance that we won't see Nakamba in a Villa shirt again.

 

 

[CVByrne]

20 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

I think Dougie is a scapegoat when the midfield doesn't perform at 23 and playing out of position I think people are very harsh on the lad. Although JR got the plaudits(rightly so) I felt Luiz was the only one doing much of the dirty work last night. McGinn was a lot poorer than Luiz imo.

I agree, he is the only one of the three midfielders playing out of position. His performances are more to highlight the gaping hole that for the past two windows has not been fixed. 

[barry'sboots]

2 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I agree, he is the only one of the three midfielders playing out of position. His performances are more to highlight the gaping hole that for the past two windows has not been fixed. 

I think 99.9% of Villa fans recognise this?? The vast majority, I would think, rate Dougie but know that we need a better "6", leaving Dougie to compete with SJM, Sanson and JJ. Equally, I do think that there are teams that you can play against (not Leeds!) where a defensive "6" is not as necessary, although if we went and bought Bissouma he would surely start every game if fit (until we have European football).

[avfc1982am]

2 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I agree, he is the only one of the three midfielders playing out of position. His performances are more to highlight the gaping hole that for the past two windows has not been fixed. 

I totally agree with this point. H was an 8 at VDG and has somehow being roped into the 6 role FT.

Personally I don't think we are tapping into Dougie's potential anywhere near enough. He's got far more in him imo.

[Laughable Chimp]

13 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I agree, he is the only one of the three midfielders playing out of position. His performances are more to highlight the gaping hole that for the past two windows has not been fixed. 

Funnyvthat we've all agreed on the he's playing out of position point. It was a major point of contention for years before whether he's an 8 or a 6.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Laughable Chimp

[CVByrne]

28 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm a  bit concerned at the way in which Nakamba is being elevated during his absence - he had three very good games prior to his injury, but prior to that he's shown nothing like the kind of form or ability that would make him a regular starter.

I think Luiz is probably better as an eight than a six, but I don't really think we play with two eights and a six, I think we play a line of three midfielders supporting two number tens - they provide that support in different ways sure - Ramsey's running power will see him making forward runs more than McGinn or Luiz for example, but I don't think any of them are specifically a six or an eight in the way we think of that.

The idea that we'd sign Bissouma and play Nakamba seems to me really unlikely, like signing Coutinho and playing Chukwuemeka, right now, I'd consider Nakamba our number five midfielder - behind Ramsey, Luiz, McGinn and Sanson - I think Iroegbanum has the ability to surpass him next season.

If we sign Bissouma, he'd add an excellent physical presence in our midfield, something that we lack, I think Ramsey has now played himself into one of the other spots leaving McGinn and Luiz to compete for the final one - on recent form I'd go with Luiz, although I think McGinn has the ability to rise to that challenge. I think having those four as our primary group would be excellent - we can rotate and have cover - with Sanson then available from the bench or if we need more cover and Iroegbanum coming through and Chukwuemeka perhaps developing into a deeper lying player, I find it really difficult to envisage a future role for Nakamba.

I still think there's a chance that we won't see Nakamba in a Villa shirt again.

 

 

To me, it's the system which really highlights the changes in performance from Luiz and Nakamba. In the 4 2 3 1 system with the two holding midfielders they need to have a mix of defensive and attacking attributes, Luiz has the better blend of skills for that role than Nakamba. McGinn did a job there too but we all knew he was being asked to play a role that's not best suited to him. So in that system McGinn under performed, Luiz did well and Nakamba wasn't best suited to it.

In the current system there is a big onus on the central midfielder in the 3 to be that aggressive, ball winner who can slow or break up opposition play in transition. This best fits Nakambas skill set which is why we've seen him play well in the system. It really doesn't suit Luiz which is why he was playing to left of Nakamba until Nakamba got injured. McGinn wouldn't be suited to it at all so has never played there. 

Yes in the current system we have 3 midfielders who are spread across. The widest two need to cover for the full backs who get far up the pitch while the central one covers the CBs. If one player gets forward for an attack it's one of the wider midfielders and the central one will move over to the space. As the central player in the midfield three there is a significant defensive responsibility, firstly because mistakes centrally are more dangerous than a mistake out wide. But also because they need to cover for a midfielder getting forward like JJ. 

Now obviously our club think Bissouma is perfect for the position (I do too). When I said Nakamba and Bissouma playing together I was referring to if the other 8 options are out injured. Bissouma in an 8 role isn't as big an issue to the team as Luiz in the 6 role. To me Nakamba is perfectly fine back up player for us next season to a Bissouma. With JJ, Sanson, McGinn and Chukwuemeka we'd have 2 players for each position in the midfield three. As a result if we had an acceptable fee for Luiz he wouldn't be missed really.

[OutByEaster?]

10 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

I totally agree with this point. H was an 8 at VDG and has somehow being roped into the 6 role FT.

I agree.

But...

Who is H and what's a VDG?

 

[Zatman]

Just now, OutByEaster? said:

I agree.

But...

Who is H and what's a VDG?

 

VDG is Vasco Da Gama...... H is the lad from Steps

Not sufe the direct connection

[barry'sboots]

10 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

To me, it's the system which really highlights the changes in performance from Luiz and Nakamba. In the 4 2 3 1 system with the two holding midfielders they need to have a mix of defensive and attacking attributes, Luiz has the better blend of skills for that role than Nakamba. McGinn did a job there too but we all knew he was being asked to play a role that's not best suited to him. So in that system McGinn under performed, Luiz did well and Nakamba wasn't best suited to it.

In the current system there is a big onus on the central midfielder in the 3 to be that aggressive, ball winner who can slow or break up opposition play in transition. This best fits Nakambas skill set which is why we've seen him play well in the system. It really doesn't suit Luiz which is why he was playing to left of Nakamba until Nakamba got injured. McGinn wouldn't be suited to it at all so has never played there. 

Yes in the current system we have 3 midfielders who are spread across. The widest two need to cover for the full backs who get far up the pitch while the central one covers the CBs. If one player gets forward for an attack it's one of the wider midfielders and the central one will move over to the space. As the central player in the midfield three there is a significant defensive responsibility, firstly because mistakes centrally are more dangerous than a mistake out wide. But also because they need to cover for a midfielder getting forward like JJ. 

Now obviously our club think Bissouma is perfect for the position (I do too). When I said Nakamba and Bissouma playing together I was referring to if the other 8 options are out injured. Bissouma in an 8 role isn't as big an issue to the team as Luiz in the 6 role. To me Nakamba is perfectly fine back up player for us next season to a Bissouma. With JJ, Sanson, McGinn and Chukwuemeka we'd have 2 players for each position in the midfield three. As a result if we had an acceptable fee for Luiz he wouldn't be missed really.

I don't disagree with much you've said but I'd rather get DL signed up (as a competing "8" who can cover "6" in games where he is more suited) and get Chukie out on loan next year. He/his team might not like this but it would be better for his development (imho) as we are seeing with JP, Cam and KD. He needs to be starting regularly. I am also not sure whether he is a "10" or "8"? We seem to be pandering to him ATM to get him to sign up?

I think that there is a lot to come from Dougie as an "8" and he is still only 23. He can develop loads here under Stevie G - couldn't think of a better teacher?

[NeilS]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Me and @TRO have had many a debate about Luiz in that role and whilst I think he can do that job. I don’t think he is doing that job. Way too many times he is switching off and let midfielders run past him. It’s his job to stop this happening and we know he can do it because he did it after lockdown.

A good DM doesn’t have to be a tough tackler and over 6 foot in my opinion. He just has to read the game well and know which spaces too cover.  Nakamba is brilliant at it. 

Maybe it’s just not in Luiz’s game after all.

Yeah I have noticed this a bit more in recent weeks, and like you say he hasn't always been like that. I am not convinced that he is totally switched on to being here, and suspect he is going through the motions a little before a transfer in the summer.

[Laughable Chimp]

50 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I agree.

But...

Who is H and what's a VDG?

 

Donny Van De Geek?

[avfc1982am]

5 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I agree.

But...

Who is H and what's a VDG?

 

He and VDG Vasco Da Gama

Edited February 11, 2022 by avfc1982am