Racism Part two

[Rustibrooks]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

Just to put a bit of context into that I am about to post. I started working for my current employer almost a year ago and my work is around 50% site based and 50% office based and the 50% office based work I do from home ( I am a highways engineer). Over the last year I have probably met up with collages collectively for meetings around 10 times. The team I work with there are 10 other people and they have all worked together for years. 

Today I went into the office for a meeting with four colleagues, including my manager. At the end of the meeting the subject of a local hotel being used to house asylum seekers arose. I then had to sit through some of the worst racism from everyone else in the room I have probably ever heard. To give a flavour of it one person commented (and the rest agreed) that they'd love to have a political party to vote for who said they would get the navy to shoot out of the water any boats crossing the channel with immigrants on , another commented that what this country needs is a Hitler type to take over and a bit of ethnic cleansing and another felt we (I assume he meant white people) would end up being slaves to the immigrants. 

I have heard some mild racism (compared with the above) from some of my colleagues before but today I sat there gobsmacked. I have got to be honest though I didn't give my thoughts which would have been the complete opposite from them. Instead I stayed dumb and now I feel really bad about that and feel that I should have spoke up even though my opinions would have gone down like a lead balloon. I just couldn't believe what I was hearing.

What would others have done in the above situation and what should I do now?

 

Not much you could’ve done mate, I wouldn’t feel bad. Plus the industry you are in I can only imagine what kind of comments you hear everyday. My close mate worked as an engineer on the tubes (for TfL) and he’s heard a lot of bs which lead to him getting fired for fighting someone about a racist comment. (He was at the time one of the only few black guys working). 
 

Assuming  your manager was sat there during the racist conversation, it’s scary that managers can hear that and not really do anything. 
 

I’ve been in similar situations as yours, even though I’m a black guy myself I’m 'lighter/fairer skinned' in comparison to the majority of my family. So sometimes I find some people want to say some horrible things about people that are darker than me, assuming I’d share the same view. I had a security guard at my building like the colleagues you’ve described and it was horrible during my time at that building. I had a couple heated debates but nothing really got through to him. He was completely set in his ways sadly.

[mjmooney]

The last few posts have been really depressing. 

 

[markavfc40]

27 minutes ago, blandy said:

Can I ask a question? How bright/intelligent are these people? Are they men/women/both - Reason I ask is it sounds like they probably don't think for themselves and you can often get leaders and followers who just kind of join in, because, well, the others say that stuff, and they want to fit in. Who's the ringleader, if anyone?

These are all well educated people. Two other Principal Engineers, a Senior Engineer and the team manager. Three men all early 60s, one woman in her late 30s.

I wouldn't say there was a ringleader as they all openly contributed and the conversation flowed naturally. They weren't just agreeing/going along with what one individual said they all had plenty to say.

I work in a team of 11 people and in terms of racial/ethnic diversity it is none existent. All would identify as white British. I think I possibly found out today why that may be.

Thank you to all who have taken the time to reply by the way. It has been really helpful.

Edited November 21, 2023 by markavfc40

[blandy]

5 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

These are all well educated people. Two other Principal Engineers, a Senior Engineer and the team manager. Three men all early 60s, one woman in her late 30s.

I wouldn't say there was a ringleader...

Ta. Not that it's worth anything, but given what you say, I'd (and I'm projecting here) be likely to either engage with them as I posted before, or to ask them "not to say that stuff in my presence" kind of thing. Maybe subtly, like "if anyone ever heard / recorded you lot talking like that, you could get in serious trouble, are you sure you're OK with doing it at work, in meetings?"

[VillaJ100]

I've seen a few different 'we should torpedo the small boats it would save lives in the long run as a deterrent' type conversations and it's very worrying

[Milfner]

I’d have done the same. Was in a similar position last year, i said nothing during the conversation but reported it. The bloke who it concerned was retiring a few months later so it didn’t get passed on. 
 

However if I knew I was was going to be in a room with them any time soon I’d be getting a voice recorder ready on my phone. **** ‘em.  

[Davkaus]

15 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said:

I've seen a few different 'we should torpedo the small boats it would save lives in the long run as a deterrent' type conversations and it's very worrying

If someone said that to me it just wouldn't compute that they weren't a lovable lefty satirising an unbelievable caricature. 

[Demitri_C]

3 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Just to put a bit of context into that I am about to post. I started working for my current employer almost a year ago and my work is around 50% site based and 50% office based and the 50% office based work I do from home ( I am a highways engineer). Over the last year I have probably met up with collages collectively for meetings around 10 times. The team I work with there are 10 other people and they have all worked together for years. 

Today I went into the office for a meeting with four colleagues, including my manager. At the end of the meeting the subject of a local hotel being used to house asylum seekers arose. I then had to sit through some of the worst racism from everyone else in the room I have probably ever heard. To give a flavour of it one person commented (and the rest agreed) that they'd love to have a political party to vote for who said they would get the navy to shoot out of the water any boats crossing the channel with immigrants on , another commented that what this country needs is a Hitler type to take over and a bit of ethnic cleansing and another felt we (I assume he meant white people) would end up being slaves to the immigrants. 

I have heard some mild racism (compared with the above) from some of my colleagues before but today I sat there gobsmacked. I have got to be honest though I didn't give my thoughts which would have been the complete opposite from them. Instead I stayed dumb and now I feel really bad about that and feel that I should have spoke up even though my opinions would have gone down like a lead balloon. I just couldn't believe what I was hearing.

What would others have done in the above situation and what should I do now?

 

Just out of curiosity did they expand on any reasons why they felt this way?

[markavfc40]

37 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Just out of curiosity did they expand on any reasons why they felt this way?

It certainly wasn't the first time they'd expressed views like this amongst each other given how comfortable they were and how easily the conversation flowed. I'd imagine between them it was just a given that they all thought that immigrants are not welcome and that they'd all expressed those views to each other some time ago so there was no reason for them to get into why they felt like that.

[Rugeley Villa]

@markavfc40 I’d say it’s pretty normal views in my experience .My mum says they should  machine gun the boats coming over the water .  When I say normal it doesn’t mean I’m saying it’s right, but in the world I live in quite a few feel that way. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Rugeley Villa

[markavfc40]

10 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

@markavfc40 I’d say it’s pretty normal views in my experience .My mum says they should  machine gun the boats coming over the water .  When I say normal it doesn’t mean I’m saying it’s right, but in the world I live in quite a few feel that way. 

I'm not naive enough to think that plenty of people don't hold these views mate. I think the thing that surprised me most is that it was in a work meeting, that it was everyone in the room freely expressing really racist views and that they made the comments in front of me who they don't really know that well. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by markavfc40

[Rugeley Villa]

13 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I'm not naive enough to think that plenty of people don't hold these views mate. I think the thing that surprised me most is that it was in a work meeting, that it was everyone in the room freely expressing really racist views and that they made the comments in front of me who they don't really know that well. 

The worlds a **** up place and you were probably right not to say anything back, I mean what’s the point, it’s not worth it. There’s better ways to make a stand against racism. You know what they say about the quietest one in the room and all that .

[desensitized43]

10 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said:

@markavfc40 I’d say it’s pretty normal views in my experience .My mum says they should  machine gun the boats coming over the water .  When I say normal it doesn’t mean I’m saying it’s right, but in the world I live in quite a few feel that way. 

It’s a consequence of the dehumanisation we’ve seen in the media for years now. Some of our population just don’t see the people in the boats as people anymore so they can say awful things like “blow them out of the water” or “machine gun them” etc.

You’d like to hope that when it actually came to something like that they aren’t serious or we're much closer to nazi style camps and final solutions than we realise.

[tomav84]

15 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Just to put a bit of context into that I am about to post. I started working for my current employer almost a year ago and my work is around 50% site based and 50% office based and the 50% office based work I do from home ( I am a highways engineer). Over the last year I have probably met up with collages collectively for meetings around 10 times. The team I work with there are 10 other people and they have all worked together for years. 

Today I went into the office for a meeting with four colleagues, including my manager. At the end of the meeting the subject of a local hotel being used to house asylum seekers arose. I then had to sit through some of the worst racism from everyone else in the room I have probably ever heard. To give a flavour of it one person commented (and the rest agreed) that they'd love to have a political party to vote for who said they would get the navy to shoot out of the water any boats crossing the channel with immigrants on , another commented that what this country needs is a Hitler type to take over and a bit of ethnic cleansing and another felt we (I assume he meant white people) would end up being slaves to the immigrants. 

I have heard some mild racism (compared with the above) from some of my colleagues before but today I sat there gobsmacked. I have got to be honest though I didn't give my thoughts which would have been the complete opposite from them. Instead I stayed dumb and now I feel really bad about that and feel that I should have spoke up even though my opinions would have gone down like a lead balloon. I just couldn't believe what I was hearing.

What would others have done in the above situation and what should I do now?

 

were they all united in their views? or was there a colleague that also stayed silent, or whose views were less extreme than the others that you could confide in perhaps? if so, i would pull them aside and see if they would be willing to back you up if you made a complaint

if not, then i would trap them. next meeting, i'd maybe bring the subject up again but secretly record the conversation on my phone

i'm lucky that my workplace has a confidential code of conduct reporting helpline that i could call for advice which i'm working on the assumption you do not have...but a call to HR might still be worthwhile and explain that there's a good chance that they're all just going to back each other up in denying any such conversations took place. they might still be able to put your colleagues on some sort of watch list, monitoring internal communications etc

[Rugeley Villa]

1 hour ago, desensitized43 said:

It’s a consequence of the dehumanisation we’ve seen in the media for years now. Some of our population just don’t see the people in the boats as people anymore so they can say awful things like “blow them out of the water” or “machine gun them” etc.

You’d like to hope that when it actually came to something like that they aren’t serious or we're much closer to nazi style camps and final solutions than we realise.

Lack of compassion isn’t it.  A boat load of people we have nothing to do with getting gunned down has no effect on our lives . Now those boat loads of people being let in some people will view that as a strain on our country which could effect them. 

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Lack of compassion isn’t it.  A boat load of people we have nothing to do with getting gunned down has no effect on our lives .

You're right, but how depressing that this is how so many people judge things.

[Rugeley Villa]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

You're right, but how depressing that this is how so many people judge things.

It is shit and we ask ourselves how and why have we got to this point 

[Demitri_C]

Its just sheer ignorance.  Alot of these people have prob never been to these poorer places or war torn countries and seen why they want to come.

 

[Rugeley Villa]

14 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Its just sheer ignorance.  Alot of these people have prob never been to these poorer places or war torn countries and seen why they want to come.

 

Very true Dem but let’s not make out that everyone coming here have legitimate reasons for doing so . Don’t blame people for wanting a better life for themselves and kids but there’s a lot of chancers that offer nothing to this country at all and shouldn’t be here or let in. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Rugeley Villa

[Seat68]

1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Very true Dem but let’s not make out that everyone coming here have legitimate reasons for doing so . Don’t blame people for wanting a better life for themselves and kids but there’s a lot of chancers that offer nothing to this country at all and shouldn’t be here or let in.

This is part of the problem I'm afraid. This notion that someone can cling to the bottom of a lorry, or be packed into an airtight truck, or give their entire life savings to a man and then crammed onto an extremely dangerous boat. Just to stand on Gravesend high street smoking and wasting their day. This gets repeated and repeated and that's where it escalates into something that is being spouted @markavfc40 is subject to. His colleagues haven't started at the views they hold now, they start with saying, some of them come over here and do nothing and offer nothing. By saying a lot the implication is a vast number, where the reality is that there is a higher percentage of UK born unemployed people than there are unemployed migrants to this country. Immigrants want to work, they don't want to mooch.