Tyrone Mings

[Villarocker]

He's got to cut out the silly mistakes. Since he and McGinn got called on for their national teams they haven't been the same players. I hope Southgate keeps his mitts off Jack. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Wouldn't it be nice if he didn't make that simple error and still scored though?

I would find it such a treat.

I mean, players make errors. He's not Virgil van Dijk. Sometimes they lead to something, sometimes they don't. 

The way he plays the game will occasionally lead to errors. It's worth it. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

2 minutes ago, Villarocker said:

He's got to cut out the silly mistakes. Since he and McGinn got called on for their national teams they haven't been the same players. I hope Southgate keeps his mitts off Jack. 

Mistake

[Tomaszk]

8 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Mistake

No, come on, it's more than one. Thankfully this is the first that led to a goal. Even then it was post-corner, so it wasn't like they ran in and scored.

It's been coming though. And it's always the same thing. He's strolling round seemingly over casual and gets tackled, or someone blocks his clearance because he's waited and got closed down.

Errors happen, yes. These particular errors are not hard to eradicate, or at least reduce. He's been getting caught at least once a match for the last 4, that's too many.

He's looking for the pass, great! That's what I and the manager want. Sometimes it's not on, and you see 99% of the time in advance of getting closed down. That's OK! Send it longer to Wes or wide. Don't always hold the ball, when all that's happening is your options are lessening and you're going to have to lash it away away from goal.

[Laughable Chimp]

5 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

No, come on, it's more than one. Thankfully this is the first that led to a goal. Even then it was post-corner, so it wasn't like they ran in and scored.

 

It isn't his first mistake that's led to a goal. Off the top of my head, Norwich's goal, Man City's first goal and Arsenal's second goal come to mind.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I just don't think it's a cause for real concern. He has to keep backing himself and it will earn us way more than it loses. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

1 minute ago, Laughable Chimp said:

It isn't his first mistake that's led to a goal. Off the top of my head, Norwich's goal, Man City's first goal and Arsenal's second goal come to mind.

He is a central defender. 

[Laughable Chimp]

5 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

He is a central defender. 

None of our other central defenders make as many mistakes as he does though. He definitely has a higher error per 90 minute ratio than either Konsa or Engels. I counted 1 obvious mistake from Konsa last game and this game, Mings has several in both games and its not happening in just these two games.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[terrytini]

I don’t even agree that his mistake led to the goal.

It led to a corner.

Less than 10% of corners lead to goals. I think it’s stretching it to say his mistake led to the goal.....could just as easily say it was the pass from Jack that led to his mistake that led to the corner etc.....or leaving the guy free on the edge of the box after the corner...or Konsa and Guilbert leaving Rashford free.

Or we could just accept that the opposition will score goals ....

I simply can’t comprehend the stick he gets. I’m starting to think I need to watch a different sport.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

He has the errors because he's the one taking the risks. He is being asked to do it I am sure. 

He'll be disappointed and try to improve. Which he will. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Just now, terrytini said:

I don’t even agree that his mistake led to the goal.

It led to a corner.

Less than 10% of corners lead to goals. I 

Corners lead to goals 3% of the time. 

[terrytini]

7 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

He is a central defender. 

There’s a wall in my house that’s not going to last much longer if I keep banging my head against it ...!

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Just now, terrytini said:

There’s a wall in my house that’s not going to last much longer if I keep banging my head against it ...!

I've been away. Is there a lot of nit picking over his game then? 

He hasn't been at his best the last couple. He'll be fine. 

[Laughable Chimp]

11 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

He has the errors because he's the one taking the risks. He is being asked to do it I am sure. 

He'll be disappointed and try to improve. Which he will. 

 His mistakes at Norwich, Arsenal and Man City were just poor defending, not from risk taking. Although poorly taking risks I do think is part of the problem too, 3 times this game he tried to dribble the ball out wide when under pressure and with his front towards his own goal when the pass to Heaton was available and lost the ball twice, one of which led to the corner which led to the goal. There's just no reason to do dribble the ball out wide like this, the benefit just does not outweigh the risks. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[terrytini]

1 minute ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I've been away. Is there a lot of nit picking over his game then? 

He hasn't been at his best the last couple. He'll be fine. 

In my view there is a lot of nit picking about a lot of our players, and the Coach....so I may not be representative....but it’s not at all unusual to read the “Tyrone is error prone“ comments.

For me, his overall defensive play, his organisational skills, his back line leadership, and his ability on the ball which often gets us going forward, are all very good.

But, he makes some mistakes. Personally, I don’t think them worth commenting on, because, in my opinion, every player makes mistakes.  
 

Even more likely if they are at the heart of a defence of a newly promoted team which will regularly come under pressure, where all other 5 defensive positions have changed pretty often, and where he is being asked to play football from the back.

As I said, I simply can’t fathom the critics.

[terrytini]

2 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

There's just no reason to do dribble the ball out wide like this, the benefit just does not outweigh the risks.

Says who ? 
 

[HanoiVillan]

When Baker used to blast those away from danger people (rightly, ultimately) complained that he was a 'hoof merchant' and unfavourably compared him to defenders who held on to the ball under pressure in order to pass from the back.

Now we have a defender who actually has some skill on the ball and can bring the ball from the back well, and people are complaining that he doesn't lump it wherever. I lean much more towards the 'he's a central defender, he'll make mistakes' line here. He did lots and lots well in that game, if you watch it back. Lee Dixon on the commentary I was watching was full of praise for him, and highlighted a number of times he defended very smartly. And he made one big mistake. I'll take my chances on those odds for now.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Great finish. Strikers finish. I suspect we will see more goals as his game develops

[terrytini]

Slightly more generally but same sort of thing, I had a long chat at half time a week or so ago with a guy moaning about us playing the ball out from the back instead of “ getting rid of it”.....

......( the very phrase does my head in....” what’s that ?”......” that’s the football ..” ..... “ get rid of it ..,” )

.....he pointed out that twice in whichever game it was, our defenders had been robbed and the opposition launched an attack.

I observed that for years I’d been baffled why, when the GK had the ball, it was so common for us to have him leather it downfield, where we’ll over 50% of the time the opposition would win it back and, yes, launch an attack.

I mused that if we play out from the back we might lose possession half a dozen times a game, ( yet launch more attacks ourselves, by definition) whereas if we boot it, we probably lose possession 20 times a game, the difference being we are used to the latter.

His response ? “ if the balls in our half I want my defenders to get rid of it, simple as that”.

I imagine we have a number of supporters who see the game the same way, after all, it’s how England, and most English sides, played until recently.

[Junxs]

What people aren't grasping is that is no one is asking him to boot it - in fact he does a lot of that anyway. Its not as easy as saying either he has to boot it or play it out..

Its called decision making, you assess the situation and deal with it accordingly, if theres no obvious pass on then dont try to take some one on when you are the last man. He actually had 2 opportunities to play a long pass down the line but feigned it both times then got tackled.

He then got in Heatons way when they both stuttered to go for the same ball when either one of them could have stopped the corner but that split second communication delay between the 2 led to the corner from which they scored. Yes stats are low for goals from corners, but if it wasnt a corner at all (like it shouldnt have been) then it would have been 0% chance of scoring rather than 10%. Both their goals were from corner routines actually.

He is a quality player, no one is questioning that, but he keeps making these mistakes when they are easily avoidable.