Vive_La_Villa Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Chicken Field said: I am really looking forward to our next game, as I am caught in two minds. I really like and rate Mings, without having any stats, the amounts of blocks, clearances and tackles he seems to make are crazy, he often seems to do the job of 2 or even 3 defenders. BUT, I am not blind, he is erratic and makes many mistakes, I truly believe it is because he does too much, question is if he does too much as he has too, or if he is just too erratic. It'll be exciting to see him next to Chambers, who may not be world class, but is proven premier league quality, which Konsa sadly, is not yet. Konsa imo, seems to passive and doesn't take command of the defence or his area, Mings seems to cover for him a lot. Also the having to pin every goal we concede on an individual mentality we have is beyond stupid. The amount of criticism that Mings gets is ridiculous, he's been amazing for us and one of, if not our most important defender for the past 20 years, there is definetly confirmation bias going on when people (probably me too) are watching him. Next game with Chambers will be interesting! This is part of the problem. Mings is having to to much to do and some of it leads to mistakes which he then gets the criticism for. Konsa is struggling this season but seems to get a free pass. They are both decent defenders but something isn’t right at the moment. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Bazmonkey said: I could post this in most chats but mings is the victim of poor defensive positioning. He is not the only one...there are others...but we seem to have two centre halves that don't want to defend. Hear me out...yes they will get blocks in...maybe a pass interception but positional both of them just sit back and let the full backs do the work...how many times did we see target making a last ditch tackle non the penalty spot with mings and konsa sitting on the 6 yard line....pretty much every game. The defensive situation is our weakness..this is a prime example...two players going to same attacker....two CB's one ball watching and the other two late to the party That picture shows how shit our defending is. Konsa doing cash's job, 3 players letting the runner go behind them, whilst Konsa and Cash become statues after this moment and the back heel is played. Thats 5 players taken out the game with one 5 yard pass. 2 at the ball and the 3 ball watching in front of Mings. Pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 50 minutes ago, a m ole said: ‘Ballwatching’ seems to be a phrase used when people want to attribute blame where there’s no real evidence to hang blame on. Players watch the ball, it’s football. They also watch their man and the man of their nearest team mates in case they lose their marker in which case they have to mark both players by positioning themselves half way between. just a colloquialism for players not doing anything when something could be done to better purpose....its an opinion. Its not a case of blame....it's a case of throwing your opinion in the ring, for something you think is wrong. Its a team game, so players have to share the criticism, like they share the glory....but in certain instances some situations stand out...Like when Coutinho and Ramsey ripped them one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiezels Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 He had a pretty bad game yesterday but still much better than konsa, he took the ball forward well twice, 3 times, and was dangerous with it, he had 2 attempts on goal. His positives far outweigh his negatives, if any CB is to be upgraded on, it’s konsa first, we’re a much worst team at the back without mings in it, and that’s a fact. Konsa doesn’t command the box or the players around him defensively, mings does that and you can see he orchestrates the attacking moves they learn on the training pitch too. He 100% has his faults and some were shown up yesterday, but he isnt a priority to move on yet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Aston_Villan4 said: 4 in 3 seasons? That’s it!? That doesn’t seem right. @Spoonyassured us he has one every other game. I may be hyperbolic in what I say but either way, we are going nowhere with him and Konsa at CB. We need a world class CB and someone to challenge for that other spot, and I think that’s a challenge Konsa wins in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Here's a question for everyone to ask friends who support other clubs. Do they rate Mings as neutrals? The reason why I say this is because most opposition fans I speak to do not rate him. I don't think it's malice either but he has got a reputation as being a bit error prone. Therefore are Villa supporters blinkered in their view that we do not need to replace him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 36 minutes ago, Spoony said: I may be hyperbolic in what I say but either way, we are going nowhere with him and Konsa at CB. We need a world class CB and someone to challenge for that other spot, and I think that’s a challenge Konsa wins in the long run. This. Mings just can’t get away from the mistakes. I’ve lost patience with it tbh. He needs to be replaced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 10, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 10, 2022 I find the criticism surrounding him coming out from the back with the ball a bit baffling tbh. It gave us an extra body in midfield and it opened up the space for someone else. We were struggling to play it out the back due to their man marking. It was exactly what was needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 We are a mess defensively at the moment, and it all stems from one place. Not Tyrone Mings... but the lack of a defensive midfielder. It's an issue we have had for years now. Douglas Luiz is just not a defensive midfielder, and it's putting excessive pressure on the back four. Some of the untracked runs from Leeds midfield last night were an absolute joke, and they pulled our back four all over the place. The time they had on the ball in the centre midfield as well allowed them to pick out passes and runs which we couldn't deal with. There's no doubt that Mings could have done better for the three goals, he'll know that himself. But he also cleared a few off the line and barely a word is said about those. Konsa next to him was poor last night, the second goal is partly on him as well. The cross should never have been played into the box so easily, and it stemmed from Ezri stopping and not closing the player down. Unfortunately we defended poorly as a unit last night, and that's the reason we conceded three goals, not due to a single individual. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aston_Villan4 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 56 minutes ago, avfc1982am said: Here's a question for everyone to ask friends who support other clubs. Do they rate Mings as neutrals? The reason why I say this is because most opposition fans I speak to do not rate him. I don't think it's malice either but he has got a reputation as being a bit error prone. Therefore are Villa supporters blinkered in their view that we do not need to replace him? Or you could argue that because other fans are more likely to just watch highlights or single games they only catch a small glimpse of what he does. And I don’t think people are saying he doesn’t need to be replaced, eventually. To me it seems that 99% of people defending him are just saying yes he clearly commits some errors but is not the massive issue people make him out to be and that it’s not that simple to just bring in a new CB since one would cost a ton and we’d have to replace the leadership quality he brings to the team. A lot of errors are the result of multiple failures, fortuitous bounces, excellent play by opponents. Not every breakdown is just a single player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 36 minutes ago, PieFacE said: I find the criticism surrounding him coming out from the back with the ball a bit baffling tbh. It gave us an extra body in midfield and it opened up the space for someone else. We were struggling to play it out the back due to their man marking. It was exactly what was needed. It's Gerrard's system, I'm sure he's being asked to drive into midfield rather than the old mings punt down the left side. I think defensively he's struggling with having digne pushed so far forward. It doenst suprise me there are errors when the defensive system has been changed so dramatically. Especially as it's both CBs struggling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 19 minutes ago, wilko154 said: We are a mess defensively at the moment, and it all stems from one place. Not Tyrone Mings... but the lack of a defensive midfielder. It's an issue we have had for years now. Douglas Luiz is just not a defensive midfielder, and it's putting excessive pressure on the back four. Some of the untracked runs from Leeds midfield last night were an absolute joke, and they pulled our back four all over the place. The time they had on the ball in the centre midfield as well allowed them to pick out passes and runs which we couldn't deal with. There's no doubt that Mings could have done better for the three goals, he'll know that himself. But he also cleared a few off the line and barely a word is said about those. Konsa next to him was poor last night, the second goal is partly on him as well. The cross should never have been played into the box so easily, and it stemmed from Ezri stopping and not closing the player down. Unfortunately we defended poorly as a unit last night, and that's the reason we conceded three goals, not due to a single individual. I'm no expert but Leeds at times didn't have a midfield, they played like a bubble with everyone on the extremes and then running diagonally into the central areas. We didnt know how to cope, except to outscore them - which could have easily happened along with getting beaten 5-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted February 10, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Bazmonkey said: I could post this in most chats but mings is the victim of poor defensive positioning. He is not the only one...there are others...but we seem to have two centre halves that don't want to defend. Hear me out...yes they will get blocks in...maybe a pass interception but positional both of them just sit back and let the full backs do the work...how many times did we see target making a last ditch tackle non the penalty spot with mings and konsa sitting on the 6 yard line....pretty much every game. The defensive situation is our weakness..this is a prime example...two players going to same attacker....two CB's one ball watching and the other two late to the party Seemed to me like Coutinho didn't follow the player making the run... but not sure if it was HIS man or did Luiz loose him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiezels Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 have a little read if that thread, goes some way to explaining how our style of play can leave the CB’s exposed and why we need a proper CDM. Also need to remember this system is new to the players and will take time to finesse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: This is part of the problem. Mings is having to to much to do and some of it leads to mistakes which he then gets the criticism for. Konsa is struggling this season but seems to get a free pass. They are both decent defenders but something isn’t right at the moment. Go in the Konsa thread and you'll see he's definitely not getting a free pass 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiezels Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 I think some peoples dislike of mings leads them to rage about the mistakes that are made and totally forget about the player as a whole and what he brings to the team. He is the only vocal leader we have, he is a better defender in most aspects than konsa and it’s an absolute fact our defence is better with him in it. If any CB needs replacing it’s konsa first. Mings isn’t the priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 2 hours ago, avfc1982am said: Here's a question for everyone to ask friends who support other clubs. Do they rate Mings as neutrals? The reason why I say this is because most opposition fans I speak to do not rate him. I don't think it's malice either but he has got a reputation as being a bit error prone. Therefore are Villa supporters blinkered in their view that we do not need to replace him? You don't have to ask other fans. If he was any good other teams would be coming in for him. McGinn United, Luiz, not a sniff for Mings off anyone, not even any twatter rumors about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuffolkVillan Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 6 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: This is part of the problem. Mings is having to to much to do and some of it leads to mistakes which he then gets the criticism for. Konsa is struggling this season but seems to get a free pass. They are both decent defenders but something isn’t right at the moment. You're spot on. As many will agree, the lack of a DM to slow down opponent attacks means CB's are working too hard and too often resulting in mistakes. A solid DM would help them set better and earlier. Roll on Summer window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 hour ago, foreveryoung said: You don't have to ask other fans. If he was any good other teams would be coming in for him. McGinn United, Luiz, not a sniff for Mings off anyone, not even any twatter rumors about. There were actually some rumours that Man United were interested in Mings either last season or the season before. The reaction from the United fans however, wasn't very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 4 hours ago, avfc1982am said: Here's a question for everyone to ask friends who support other clubs. Do they rate Mings as neutrals? The reason why I say this is because most opposition fans I speak to do not rate him. I don't think it's malice either but he has got a reputation as being a bit error prone. Therefore are Villa supporters blinkered in their view that we do not need to replace him? My non-villa friends all think he's rubbish... but may well be suffering the same complication most of our fans do. All they see is an unworthy (only got in due to injury) England International, that is only in the news when he's made a mistake, or a non-football related comment. They don't see the full picture so their opinion probably isn't worth considering really. Most of the debate here is extremist. Extremism breeds extremism. The stronger people slate him for his errors, the stronger the defence of him will be. He has his flaws, so does every other centre back in the league. I think he brings more to the team (on and off the pitch) than he takes away, and we'll struggle to get much better where we are at the moment. I can't take the opinion of him from non-villa fans seriously.. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts