Lovre Kalinić

[Thats2]

You have to be patient with keepers. Look at Gollini, or Steer himself. De Gea was shit for almost the whole of his first season in England. Fabianski and Szczesny struggled at Arsenal but look at them now. Matz Sels was a catastrophe at Newcastle but looks to be coming good in Ligue 1. On and on, really.

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I am saying that's what it would cost. Not that it would happen. 

If you think a promoted team would sell their Nr1 26 year old keeper, who was rock solid leading to promotion, with 10 seasons left in him, for less than £10-15 million in a market like this where bang mediocre players will go for £ 15 million then you would be surprised. 

 

bang mediocre players. Not goalkeepers.

If anyone bid £5m for Steer he's be gone

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

We could probably buy two keepers who are better than Steer for £10m

No chance!  I know it’s all about opinions but I think this is being very harsh on Steer. 

Edit: just saw your last post and I guess you could be right. But I still think Steer is good enough to be number 2 for us at least.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa

[MaVilla]

2 hours ago, Thats2 said:

You have to be patient with keepers. Look at Gollini, or Steer himself. De Gea was shit for almost the whole of his first season in England. Fabianski and Szczesny struggled at Arsenal but look at them now. Matz Sels was a catastrophe at Newcastle but looks to be coming good in Ligue 1. On and on, really.

agree, we havent given Kalinic a proper run or time to settle in.

Throwing players under the bus before they settle is something we do well.

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Hah. Like the one Steer replaced? £ 7 mill was it? If you or anyone else can name s single keeper for less than £10 million that would replace Steer you should contact out scouting department and teach them how stuff works. 

Well yeah. I think Kalinic will show himself to be a better keeper. So that's a good example.

Other goalkeepers that have gone for £10m or less over the past few seasons:

Sam Johnstone
Matz Sels
Darren Randolph
Vito Manone
Asmir Begovic
Lukas Fabianski
Joe Hart

And some not mentioned above that I imagine would be available for less than £10m now:

Fraser Forster
Tom Heaton
John Ruddy
Tim Krul
Costel Pantilimon
Dean Henderson (Maybe... maybe more than £10m)
 

I've probably missed some. And that's just this country.

I think Steer has done really well for us, but I think people are inf;ating just how good he is whilst also overestimating how much goalkeepers cost beyond the absolute elite.

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Ofc it works. 

£ 2-3 million for a keeper that just got his team promoted? 26 years old and English? You must be taking the piss. 

It doesn't work. Marcus Rashfors was keeping Lukaku out of the Man Utd team last season. Lukaku signed for £75m. Does that mean Rashford is worth £100m?

Of course it doesn't. 

[Stevo985]

13 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

No chance!  I know it’s all about opinions but I think this is being very harsh on Steer. 

Edit: just saw your last post and I guess you could be right. But I still think Steer is good enough to be number 2 for us at least.

Just last summer we could have bought Sam Johnsgone and Matz Sels for £10m total going by the fees they went for.

Edit: and I agree Steer is good enough for Number 2. But the discussionw as whether he was worth £15m which he just isn't, imo.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Stevo985

[KenjiOgiwara]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Well yeah. I think Kalinic will show himself to be a better keeper. So that's a good example.

Other goalkeepers that have gone for £10m or less over the past few seasons:

Sam Johnstone
Matz Sels
Darren Randolph
Vito Manone
Asmir Begovic
Lukas Fabianski
Joe Hart

And some not mentioned above that I imagine would be available for less than £10m now:

Fraser Forster
Tom Heaton
John Ruddy
Tim Krul
Costel Pantilimon
Dean Henderson (Maybe... maybe more than £10m)
 

I've probably missed some. And that's just this country.

I think Steer has done really well for us, but I think people are inf;ating just how good he is whilst also overestimating how much goalkeepers cost beyond the absolute elite.

That's a fair post. I think you might be underestimating valuations though. But what players have previously gone for is pretty irrelevant. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

Just now, Stevo985 said:

Just last summer we could have bought Sam Johnsgone and Matz Sels for £10m total going by the fees they went for

Yeah you’re right. Many goalkeepers seem to go cheap. 

I actually think Steer is slightly better than Johnstone although I appriecate many will probably not agree with that. 

If we do sign a new keeper it will be interesting to see who we keep out of Steer and Kalinic. The latter may want first team football to help his chances for Croatia.

[KenjiOgiwara]

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

It doesn't work. Marcus Rashfors was keeping Lukaku out of the Man Utd team last season. Lukaku signed for £75m. Does that mean Rashford is worth £100m?

Of course it doesn't. 

I am not saying it's a set value. I am saying a selling club would argue Rashford was worth £75 mill + exactly because of what you're saying. This is pretty much how transfers have been argued for the last 20 years. 

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I am not saying it's a set value. I am saying a selling club would argue Rashford was worth £75 mill + exactly because of what you're saying. 

I don't think they would. But let's agree to disagree

[KenjiOgiwara]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I don't think they would. But let's agree to disagree

That's okey. But it seems to me you disagree with basic market economics.

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

That's okey. But it seems to me you disagree with basic market economics.

What you described isn't "basic market economics"

Us saying "Steer kept Kalinic out of the team therefore is worth more" wouldn't suddenly mean we would sell him for more than we bought Kalinic for.

Same as United saying "Rashford kept Lukaku out of the team therefore is worth more" wouldn't suddenly mean they sell him for more than £75m

 

Overpaying for a player doesn't inflate your other players' values.

[KenjiOgiwara]

That's if you assume there's a thing called overpaying.  There's supply and demand,  and a price to go with it. 

If a product outperforms another product while being cheaper the new price will adjust and reflect that. It's how things work. 

[LakotaDakota]

So a keeper that barely played for anyone at all for 3 years plays 19 games in the third tier, then another 19 in the second tier due simply to everyone else being injured is now worth 15 million quid? And people are questioning if Abraham would be worth 25 million....

Some of you are mental. If we had just given Steer to Barnsley and told them to keep him, free of charge instead of loaning him out nobody would have even raised an eyebrow

[MaVilla]

1 minute ago, LakotaDakota said:

So a keeper that barely played for anyone at all for 3 years plays 19 games in the third tier, then another 19 in the second tier due simply to everyone else being injured is now worth 15 million quid? And people are questioning if Abraham would be worth 25 million....

Some of you are mental. If we had just given Steer to Barnsley and told them to keep him, free of charge instead of loaning him out nobody would have even raised an eyebrow

Welcome to Villa Talk, should i give you the guided tour Sir?

[Nigel]

12 hours ago, hippo said:

to me his is big guy who struggles to get down with any degree of speed. - This pretty much looks like how he is made - and therefore don't see much scope for improvement. 

Weighted shoulder pads!

[AvfcRigo82]

Angus Gunn at Southampton?

[Keener window-cleaner]

9 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Angus Gunn at Southampton?

I'd take him for the name alone

[OxfordVillan]

16 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

So a keeper that barely played for anyone at all for 3 years plays 19 games in the third tier, then another 19 in the second tier due simply to everyone else being injured is now worth 15 million quid? And people are questioning if Abraham would be worth 25 million....

Some of you are mental. If we had just given Steer to Barnsley and told them to keep him, free of charge instead of loaning him out nobody would have even raised an eyebrow

I’d have raised an eyebrow, as I’ve been arguing for Steer to be given game time for at least the last 2 seasons. That it has taken until now for him to get his opportunity has been negligent, but he has grabbed that chance with both hands and proven to be better than both of the goalkeepers signed by Villa in the last 12months. He’s been rock solid during his time between the sticks and his confidence has visibly grown during that time, making some match winning saves in vital games this season. Remember that save from Rodríguez in the 1st leg at Villa Park, the penalty save at Hillsborough, penalty saves in the semi final shoot out. What mistakes has he made? I can’t remember any mishaps being on a par with the  Kalinic & Nyland mistakes. And Steer proved much better at commanding his entire area, and he was better with the ball at his feet. He is 26yrs old and will only improve with game time, I’d be relaxed with Steer starting as our No.1 next season. He certainly is far better than being given away.