A'Villan Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 34 minutes ago, TRO said: Interesting. In other words "seizing the initiative"....that's how i want us to play too. However, I also recognise there are times in a game when containment is prudent too, depending on the circumstances. We're in agreement. However none of this addresses the specifics of any given game plan and is a general approach. It's all well and good for Smith to have a philosophy but it's the details of his tactics which will determine whether the football we produce is effective. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 3 hours ago, LakotaDakota said: We have 19 games left. If we don't win at least 8 of them i don't think he will be here in August. I just don't get the sense that the new owners would be so short term with their manager, regardless of wins, because this squad needs to be entirely reshaped to be sustainable and DS is only 2 weeks into his first window. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 41 minutes ago, TRO said: where is he? Tending to girlfriend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted January 17, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2019 46 minutes ago, TRO said: where is he? whilst i highly disagreed with much of what he posted, i do miss the cantankerous old git i must say 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 30 minutes ago, A'Villan said: We're in agreement. However none of this addresses the specifics of any given game plan and is a general approach. It's all well and good for Smith to have a philosophy but it's the details of his tactics which will determine whether the football we produce is effective. True.... ....but equally, he can give all the instructions perfectly, but if the players execution of those plans is rubbish.....it all ends up as rubbish. I am still of the main opinion that the effectiveness is determined by the initiative that the players adopt. There are many reasons why we play badly or well.....i guess there is such a cross section of opinions on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, tomav84 said: whilst i highly disagreed with much of what he posted, i do miss the cantankerous old git i must say We used to have some ding dongs....but like you, i miss his comments. we can all learn more, by debating....it stimulates the brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, TRO said: We used to have some ding dongs....but like you, i miss his comments. we can all learn more, by debating....it stimulates the brain. What is it they say, absence makes the heart grow fonder? Hell, some folk even pine for Sadam and that Hitler fella. Bring back Big Eck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Just watched the presser. I like DS, I really do. But he looks 5 years older after being in charge for 3 months. Made me laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 51 minutes ago, TRO said: True.... ....but equally, he can give all the instructions perfectly, but if the players execution of those plans is rubbish.....it all ends up as rubbish. I am still of the main opinion that the effectiveness is determined by the initiative that the players adopt. There are many reasons why we play badly or well.....i guess there is such a cross section of opinions on that. I think initiative is the perfect word to describe what is required of any athlete, across any sport. I agree with you in part on the level of its importance in determining an outcome, I'll explain why. 45 minutes of play that is heavily contested by two teams consisting of players of a similar caliber is a long time to expect any rehearsal to go entirely to plan. So for that reason it is the initiative of the players to win the contest at every opportunity. To do this successfully enables a game plan a greater chance of being implemented successfully. There is obviously a balance which can tilt to one side on any given day. One one hand you have 11 individuals come together with the objective of scoring more goals than an opposition of equal number and relative skill. Does a team that is unified under a game plan designed to expand and contract according to the way the game develops have an advantage against a team that has not communicated or coordinated itself? Absolutely it does. On the other hand you have the same setting but this time the 11 individuals have a higher intensity and work rate, committing a greater level of energy to winning the ball than their opponents. The advantage clearly lies with the team of greater commitment. On the third hand (because we're weird like that), you have a greater level of talent and skill level than the opposition. I'd say these 3 elements are probably the biggest contributors to how a game is decided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 43 minutes ago, A'Villan said: I think initiative is the perfect word to describe what is required of any athlete, across any sport. I agree with you in part on the level of its importance in determining an outcome, I'll explain why. 45 minutes of play that is heavily contested by two teams consisting of players of a similar caliber is a long time to expect any rehearsal to go entirely to plan. So for that reason it is the initiative of the players to win the contest at every opportunity. To do this successfully enables a game plan a greater chance of being implemented successfully. There is obviously a balance which can tilt to one side on any given day. One one hand you have 11 individuals come together with the objective of scoring more goals than an opposition of equal number and relative skill. Does a team that is unified under a game plan designed to expand and contract according to the way the game develops have an advantage against a team that has not communicated or coordinated itself? Absolutely it does. On the other hand you have the same setting but this time the 11 individuals have a higher intensity and work rate, committing a greater level of energy to winning the ball than their opponents. The advantage clearly lies with the team of greater commitment. On the third hand (because we're weird like that), you have a greater level of talent and skill level than the opposition. I'd say these 3 elements are probably the biggest contributors to how a game is decided. i like the Business Worlds Acronym best ......K I S S. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, TRO said: i like the Business Worlds Acronym best ......K I S S. Here I was thinking you just called me stupid. I was brought up under Keep It Simple Stupid. Straightforward is a little more apt and less derogatory. "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein. This applies to tactics as well. For if an individual player lacks clarity on his role the plan does not go accordingly. Even the anomaly that was Barca's tiki taka. The taka has to be there for the tiki. There is no blueprint. Every player was brought up in a different manner. Their coaches having different ideas on how to play. The difficulty for Dean Smith will be coordinating his players under a single mindset. You leave it up to the players and they will go with what they were used to which will differ from one to the next. That Leaves us vulnerable to exploitation when there is confusion as to who goes where in order to support the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, A'Villan said: Here I was thinking you just called me stupid. I was brought up under Keep It Simple Stupid. Straightforward is a little more apt and less derogatory. "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein. This applies to tactics as well. For if an individual player lacks clarity on his role the plan does not go accordingly. Even the anomaly that was Barca's tiki taka. The taka has to be there for the tiki. There is no blueprint. Every player was brought up in a different manner. Their coaches having different ideas on how to play. The difficulty for Dean Smith will be coordinating his players under a single mindset. You leave it up to the players and they will go with what they were used to which will differ from one to the next. That Leaves us vulnerable to exploitation when there is confusion as to who goes where in order to support the other. don't take it literally....it wasn't mean't to be derogatory. but there are rakes of top managers that swear by simplicity. its not always the case, but many managers where tactics precede them, usually have a high calibre of player, who are able to carry out their plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, TRO said: don't take it literally....it wasn't mean't to be derogatory. but there are rakes of top managers that swear by simplicity. its not always the case, but many managers where tactics precede them, usually have a high calibre of player, who are able to carry out their plans. I was just attempting to be playful rather than taking things to heart. High caliber players became so due to thousands of repetitions they do honing their skill in accordance with the TACTICS that their team requires them to learn and implement. Another thing, clarity and familiarity with the tactics actually allows players to play HARDER and FASTER than they would otherwise. So this idea of playing with initiative is actually hugely boosted by a players understanding of his role within the tactics. When the team knows the game plan they can sprint to space without having to look over shoudlers to check for support. Bodies instinctively knows what to do and when to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Just watched the presser. I like DS, I really do. But he looks 5 years older after being in charge for 3 months. Made me laugh I think about 3 years of that aging happened during the Swansea and Wigan games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killeen30 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 10 hours ago, hippo said: What I mean't was is there indication he won't be given time as Aston Villa manager ? (IE by those at the club cutting short his contract) Too me that we will be judged by how many games he wins - not what I or one two others post on here - so to me Smith will get time until those at the top of the club decide the results are unacceptable. I would be staggered if he was anywhere near being shown the exit door at the moment - ergo he will get time. Not once did I say he was anywhere near close to by shown the exit door by Villa. That would be highly silly. I simply said I hoped he would be given proper time to do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Killeen30 said: Not once did I say he was anywhere near close to by shown the exit door by Villa. That would be highly silly. I simply said I hoped he would be given proper time to do the job. maybe I misread you then. you seemed concerned he wouldnt be given time...... The results will determine how much time he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Time works differently watching Neil Taylor trying to get a ball under control. That's all it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 On 16/01/2019 at 09:40, jim said: I'm taking that statement from Purslow with a pinch of salt. We have been lied to so often I don't believe anything anybody says anymore. It's just my opinion but looking at Smith he looks like a man under pressure and I wonder if the message from the hierarchy to him is that promotion is imperative. Smith said himself when he came in that promotion was the brief for this season. Completely agree how can promotion not be essential this year ? Everyday we spend in this pesky league is a day to long in my view for many reasons. i find it hard to understand that hard nosed business would accept we are out of the race in January ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, Dave J said: Completely agree how can promotion not be essential this year ? Everyday we spend in this pesky league is a day to long in my view for many reasons. i find it hard to understand that hard nosed business would accept we are out of the race in January ? we had no choice but change managers mid season. However its a massive ask asking a manager to come in mid season and get promoted in the same season. I dont think that is the brief. barring a disastrous run of results smith starts next season IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, hippo said: we had no choice but change managers mid season. However its a massive ask asking a manager to come in mid season and get promoted in the same season. I dont think that is the brief. barring a disastrous run of results smith starts next season IMO. I would beg to differ with all due respect - when we fired Di matteo and hired that chump - it was done with one thing in mind - promotion and I do believe the same thing has happened once more - otherwise why would the club have moved to act when they did? I find it hard to accept that until its mathematically not possible to go up - the powers that be will be pressing Smith to the limits to achieve this imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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