Dean Smith

[avfc1982am]

Just now, lexicon said:

OK, can you explain exactly what you mean by surpassing what has been achieved so far this season then, please?

By how much, in what way etc.

By expecting better than what we have seen! It's that simple. I shouldn't have to break that down anymore than it has been as it's been discussed to death the last few days.

My original comment was responding to the notion that it was unrealistic to expect better not that there wouldn't be bumps or a seamless transition along the way. 

 

[lexicon]

4 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

It is not that I am looking for a theoretical pattern, I am looking for consistency from the team and the ability to compete without a single player. I have no problem our performances dipping when we lose our best player but they went off the cliff. Smith wasn't able to get results without Jack in the team. I see that as a concern. Consistency and predictability in performances is far better than being like Jekyll and Hyde

Well it was consistent and predictable, no? 

100m player in the team makes a huge difference at our level, does it not? 

[Peter Griffin]

Just now, lexicon said:

Well it was consistent and predictable, no? 

100m player in the team makes a huge difference at our level, does it not? 

If our points tally for the 2nd half of last season was predictable then we have very different expectation for Villa. We were dire and imo we scored fewer points that we should have. I will concede that we were consistent but we were consistently very poor, that is not the type of consistency I am looking for

[lexicon]

8 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

By expecting better than what we have seen! It's that simple. I shouldn't have to break that down anymore than it has been as it's been discussed to death the last few days.

My original comment was responding to the notion that it was unrealistic to expect better not that there wouldn't be bumps or a seamless transition along the way. 

 

Well I'd like you to quantify to it a bit more than just 'better'. 

At the moment we're going through a bad patch, and are still closer to top 6 than bottom 3. Dean's turned it around before and he can do it again IMO. 

[avfc1982am]

I've no doubt that there are a couple of clowns that will want Smith out as with any other manager they don't like. I myself have wanted to see numerous managers turfed out of VP at some point or other. Especially the last 10 years. However, I think some posters need to get it into their heads that criticisms of the manager are not fans wanting Smith to fail. I think most of us no matter how concerned about certain issues want nothing more than Dean to succeed and have done since the get go. As much as he deserves the plaudits when it's good he also deserves the criticisms when it isn't. This is just one of those times.  

 

[lexicon]

11 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

If our points tally for the 2nd half of last season was predictable then we have very different expectation for Villa. We were dire and imo we scored fewer points that we should have. I will concede that we were consistent but we were consistently very poor, that is not the type of consistency I am looking for

Do you believe that the team without Grealish was good enough for top half? 

EDIT - and by team, I mean squad as a whole. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by lexicon

[lexicon]

5 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

I've no doubt that there are a couple of clowns that will want Smith out as with any other manager they don't like. I myself have wanted to see numerous managers turfed out of VP at some point or other. Especially the last 10 years. However, I think some posters need to get it into their heads that criticisms of the manager are not fans wanting Smith to fail. I think most of us no matter how concerned about certain issues want nothing more than Dean to succeed and have done since the get go. As much as he deserves the plaudits when it's good he also deserves the criticisms when it isn't. This is just one of those times.  

 

I get what you're saying, as I go through the same thing with McGinn - I don't hate the guy or think he's shit but find that my criticisms of him are interpreted as such - so perhaps I should be a little more understanding here. 

I'd also like to point out that I'm not trying to aggressively debate, so I'm sorry if my tone felt too accusatory or attacking at any point.  

[Peter Griffin]

8 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Do you believe that the team without Grealish was good enough for top half? 

EDIT - and by team, I mean squad as a whole. 

I assume you are referring to last season? If so, no, I don't think we would be top half without Jack. He was definitely a big player for us. 

[avfc1982am]

5 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Well I'd like you to quantify to it a bit more than just 'better'. 

At the moment we're going through a bad patch, and are still closer to top 6 than bottom 3. Dean's turned it around before and he can do it again IMO. 

Why.....Can't you work out what could've been better for yourself? Look back through the hundreds of posts. 

There is still no need to blag someone else's comments to assist with your own narrative. And then to expect me to explain in more depth in the hope I come across as unrealistic and compound your original comment. 

You could've just said, "yeah, I misinterpreted" and left it at that.  

 

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, avfc1982am said:

Don't try and divert...You were basically saying that it is unrealistic to expect anyone to surpass what Smith is doing. That's what I was responding to. Not the time frames. 

The other point here is MON had a shitload of money, and a shitload of waste. Yes there were improvements but there was also unsustainability with him and many would argue he had stagnated which I also think was the case. He may well of kept improving but he was dragging the club with his ego and wastefulness. I'd have replaced him 12 months before he walked tbh. 

You aren't wrong in that there are mitigating circumstances currently....however, don't let that blind you into thinking improvement can't be achieved with anyone other than Smith. He's made some silly errors this season imo and rightly should be questioned on that basis. 

Haha ok then. 

[lexicon]

Just now, Peter Griffin said:

I assume you are referring to last season? If so, no, I don't think we would be top half without Jack. He was definitely a big player for us. 

So why were you expecting the results we had without him to not reflect that? 

[DCJonah]

57 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Depends what you class as unrealistic expectations.

I think a realistic expectation this season would be to see us improve on last year's league position and try and overtake some established teams and aim for 7th-8th, or a good cup run?

We will find out if Dean Smith is able to achieve close to that, if he doesn't then I am sure the club will act accordingly to maybe get someone who can take the team further with the same war chest at their disposal.

I think it's a realistic aim, the word expectation makes me think people view it as the bare minimum that's acceptable. 

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, avfc1982am said:

Why.....Can't you work out what could've been better for yourself? Look back through the hundreds of posts. 

There is still no need to blag someone else's comments to assist with your own narrative. And then to expect me to explain in more depth in the hope I come across as unrealistic and compound your original comment. 

You could've just said, "yeah, I misinterpreted" and left it at that.  

I wanted to know what more you wanted because you were coming across like you wanted someone else to be in charge - you've subsequently clarified that position. The negative aspects of the results and performances were clear for everyone to see but for me, Smith has more than enough credit in the bank to make a few mistakes here and there because he's always learned from them and improved both the club and himself along the way. 

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, lexicon said:

So why were you expecting the results we had without him to not reflect that? 

There is a big range in results giving a top half finish and results that are in or about relegation form. I said I expected results to dip without Jack, but not to the extent that they did. I said I believed we should have picked up more points without him. The concern is that the team couldn't work as a team without him, we looked clueless and it was a repeat of when we lost Jack during the promotion season. It is concerning that Dean was not able to put out a team in a system that got us more points and an even bigger concern that it wasn't the first time. I appreciate that it is difficult to Deano. You have a 100m player and u want to utilise him as much as you can. Everything was directed via Jack and there was no plan B for what happens without Jack. I feel we are going through this challenging period for a 3rd time now with Smith and the signs of improvement are not too evident. We do not have a system, we do not play with cohesion and we don't know how to play Ollie and Ings and our current points tally is close to relegation points.

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said:

There is a big range in results giving a top half finish and results that are in or about relegation form. I said I expected results to dip without Jack, but not to the extent that they did. I said I believed we should have picked up more points without him. The concern is that the team couldn't work as a team without him, we looked clueless and it was a repeat of when we lost Jack during the promotion season. It is concerning that Dean was not able to put out a team in a system that got us more points and an even bigger concern that it wasn't the first time. I appreciate that it is difficult to Deano. You have a 100m player and u want to utilise him as much as you can. Everything was directed via Jack and there was no plan B for what happens without Jack. I feel we are going through this challenging period for a 3rd time now with Smith and the signs of improvement are not too evident. We do not have a system, we do not play with cohesion and we don't know how to play Ollie and Ings and our current points tally is close to relegation points.

It's a different situation because before, when he was at the club, he'd be back in the side sooner rather than later and the players knew that would be the case and he was still there as a presence in the dressing room/as a teammate etc. The dynamics have now changed significantly and there's a space for other players to step up - it'll take time to resettle. 

Effective or not, we've quite clearly had a system of play with the 3 at the back experiment - this is not Steve Bruce we're talking about here - though what you say about cohesion and the issue of Ings/Watkins is true and I don't think anyone is particularly happy with it.

RE: our points tally, we're still closer to top 6 than bottom 3, by the way. Not that we've been playing well or anything to shout about, but it's still true. 

As I've said in another post, Smith has more than enough currency to deserve some time to get things together and I see no reason why he won't get things back on track again. 

[AvfcRigo82]

20 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I think it's a realistic aim, the word expectation makes me think people view it as the bare minimum that's acceptable. 

Expectation as in what targets the board have set for this season.

[Peter Griffin]

3 minutes ago, lexicon said:

It's a different situation because before, when he was at the club, he'd be back in the side sooner rather than later and the players knew that would be the case and he was still there as a presence in the dressing room/as a teammate etc. The dynamics have now changed significantly and there's a space for other players to step up - it'll take time to resettle. 

Effective or not, we've quite clearly had a system of play with the 3 at the back experiment - this is not Steve Bruce we're talking about here - though what you say about cohesion and the issue of Ings/Watkins is true and I don't think anyone is particularly happy with it.

RE: our points tally, we're still closer to top 6 than bottom 3, by the way. Not that we've been playing well or anything to shout about, but it's still true. 

As I've said in another post, Smith has more than enough currency to deserve some time to get things together and I see no reason why he won't get things back on track again. 

I agree it will take a bit of time to get right, I didn't expect it to happen overnight. I also like the players we have recruited but the jury is still out on whether we have a bit of imbalance between our attacking and defensive players. I can't help but think we could be better off swapping an attacking player for a more defensive player. The closer to top 6 as opposed to relegation is always going to be tight at this stage in the season. The max points any team can have is 27 so the 6 teams haven't pulled away yet. But we are only returning 1.1 per game and I am not happy with that, I would want to see us at about 1.4 points per game.

I agree DS has credit in the bank but that credit won't last too long and tbh I don't want us to get to a situation where his job is safe because of the credit he has in the bank as that means we are doing badly. I think he is feeling the pressure and his persistence with a back 5 in every game is just giving people a stick to beat him with. I hope he can fix this and I hope he starts picking up some points but the big thing for me is to see Smith look tactically astute with team selection and very importantly during a game. We should not be playing the same formation in every game. This is wrong and an error Smith keeps making. We need to be able to adapt to the team we are playing and he is not doing this. 

[DCJonah]

42 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

There is a big range in results giving a top half finish and results that are in or about relegation form. I said I expected results to dip without Jack, but not to the extent that they did. I said I believed we should have picked up more points without him. The concern is that the team couldn't work as a team without him, we looked clueless and it was a repeat of when we lost Jack during the promotion season. It is concerning that Dean was not able to put out a team in a system that got us more points and an even bigger concern that it wasn't the first time. I appreciate that it is difficult to Deano. You have a 100m player and u want to utilise him as much as you can. Everything was directed via Jack and there was no plan B for what happens without Jack. I feel we are going through this challenging period for a 3rd time now with Smith and the signs of improvement are not too evident. We do not have a system, we do not play with cohesion and we don't know how to play Ollie and Ings and our current points tally is close to relegation points.

I find it odd that you hold it as a criticism that first season. Do you remember the state we were in when he joined? Or the fact it wasn't his squad? But even then he was meant to produce results without the best player in the league. 

Speaks volumes.

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I find it odd that you hold it as a criticism that first season. Do you remember the state we were in when he joined? Or the fact it wasn't his squad? But even then he was meant to produce results without the best player in the league. 

Speaks volumes.

DC

Would you not be better putting the effort into something else than stalking my comments looking for something to try and push your agenda and what's worse is if you can't find anything you just make it up. 

[VillanousOne]

13 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

I agree with almost all of that except I wouldn't have Mings as captain.

I agree with everything else, we win or lose and have throughout his tenure.

True, I guess I meant in the context that Ming’s was vice captain at that time, we have lacked experience since we came up. Heaton would have made a good captain before he was injured or even Elmo although he didn’t play much. Maybe now it should be Young or Martinez.

but yes back on point sometimes I crave consistency and even draws rather than a constant rollercoaster of random results.