Dean Smith

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, Tayls said:

I’ve had time to reflect after my very reactive response to yesterday’s shambles. I stand by what I said concerning the manner of the defeat. I think it was disgraceful, and I certainly have no time for any of the excuses being pushed around as to why it might have happened. It was embarrassing and Tyrone got it right during his post match interview - it was amateurish. 

In terms of relegation, as this is the thing that gets me slated by many for even mentioning the word, I don’t actually believe we will go down. I think there are far worse teams in this league. However, I do think we will be part of a scrap around that 15th, 16th 17th spot. I do not believe we have as good a squad as what many people make out. Surely everyone can see the weaknesses with the side during our play? 

We’ve only played well in 3.5 of the 8 games so far in my opinion. Lots of people saying we played well in so and so loss, however, we lost… that’s the thing. You don’t get points by playing well and losing. We need to move on from that mindset. 

There is a lot of work to be done, particularly by Smith. We can’t keep going into games and looking  completely disjointed, not having an identity at this stage is terrible, especially after three seasons back in the Prem. 

If things don’t start improving, then Smith will be out and we’ll be heading into another period of transition. 

No chance. We're well ahead of those teams and that's not playing too well and missing a key player. 

[fruitvilla]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

but they also need understanding from fans and CEOs to help them

I think, as a group, that it is us fans that need  to understand the players, management and the game in general. The posts as a whole on VillaTalk in reaction to yesterday's match did not even reach the standard of amateurish. Amateurs can actually be good. They were infantile.

I ended up taking the afternoon off from VillaTalk yesterday it was generally so puerile.

 

[TrentVilla]

On 09/10/2021 at 12:54, Adam2003 said:

I am not sure of this Trent. I think he knows exactly what he wants to do, he just hasn’t been able to do it yet as Bailey and Buendia - our two record signings - have both been out. So what we have been doing has been a bit of adaptation. Liverpool would look different without Salah and Mane, etc etc. Pretty sure when they are fit it’ll be a 4-5-1/4-3-3 and look a lot better.

I don't and I've less faith. How do Ings and Watkins fit into those formations with Bailey and Buendia?

I think we signed good players but without a clear plan on how to use them. I think Smith is going to come under real pressure.

[bannedfromHandV]

Jesus Christ this place gets so reactionary these days, beat United away the guys a messiah, have a mental 15 minutes when we were cruising to a win and he’s out.

Perspective folks, perspective.

[TrentVilla]

On 08/10/2021 at 23:30, Keener window-cleaner said:

That's a very good read. Replacing 1 player with 3 doesn't improve our starting 11 as we cant field 13 players. I see Bailey as Jacks replacement, I have loved what I've seen of Bailey so far but as of yet he isn't an improvement. Buendia I see as a replacement for Barkley, compared to the Barkley before his injury it's about even. Ings I see as a replacement for Wesley, but as Wesley was on the bench that's an improvement of the bench not the starting 11. So the staring 11 hasn't improved. The biggest concern for me is that we didn't seem to have a well thought out plan of how to best use the players we bought. For me it's hurting to see Bailey, Buendia and Traoré on the bench. With the system we play now there doesn't seem to a natural position for any one of them. Spending £70M on two exciting players and then have them on the bench is a concern.

I don't want to be negative but I don't think Watkins and Ings will work, at least not with this formation and and the players we field behind them. To me Watkins and Ings are too similar, both like to drop down and run in behind the defence, neither creates much for the other and they more or less run at the same balls. Both need creative players behind them who feeds them with quality through balls and create chances for them, problem is, when we play two hard working box to box midfielders behind in McGinn and Ramsey, they wont get the quality passes that for example Buendia and Traoré can provide. That leaves it to our wide players to create chances, but there we have our two full backs who are good full backs, but mostly just whipps in crosses. I think it would be better for Watkins and Ings if Buendia played instead of Ramsey and if Bailey played instead of Targett. If also Traoré played instead of Cash then they would get a lot to work with, but it would probably leave us far too vulnerable.

I have no doubt that Dean Smith will figure out a way of making it work, but I think it will mean that only one of Ings and Watkins will play, perhaps both can play if Watkins plays wide forward at times.

Belated reply - I agree with all the above.

[TrentVilla]

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Jesus Christ this place gets so reactionary these days, beat United away the guys a messiah, have a mental 15 minutes when we were cruising to a win and he’s out.

Perspective folks, perspective.

If it is the same people saying the two things you've a point, I rather suspect it isn't and it is different people with opposing views. The only thing that really changes is the people posting depending on the result.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Pongo's Socks said:

He's still learning on the job. Some will say that's not good enough considering the ambition we have. But the reality is, he's only 3 years into his first massive job, and we're only 3 years into being a 'proper' club again, after years in the wilderness (I mean numerous seasons of barely surviving in the Prem, along with the time in the Championship). The progression we've made since he came in is huge, that's undeniable. I like the patience that the board seem to have with him, they seem to have a long term plan, and see Deano as part of it, and look like they're willing to stick to it. Yes, he's had money. Yes, he still makes mistakes. Don't get me wrong, he frustrates the hell out of me sometimes. He can seem very stubborn at times. But I think Dean and the club are moving/improving at roughly the same rate. 

Dean is 50 years old....10 managers are younger than him in the Premier league.....One of the best players around John Terry chose to learn the job with Dean, so lets get some perspective here....12 managers have played less games at their respective clubs, than Dean.

Dean is an experienced manager.....all managers are learning, they never stop learning.

We simply have to get back on the horse and prove that this was a bad day, (even if it wasn't, just a bad day) and put it behind us....we have no other choice.

Edited October 17, 2021 by TRO

[Keyblade]

8 hours ago, villa4europe said:

FFS... 

Based on what? The bottom 3 currently have 2 points, 3 points and 3 points, we are 7 points off them, we are 2 points off 7th and 5 off 4th

The points per game ratio of 10 points from 8 games gets us to 48 points, last year that would have got us 11th, guess where we finished last year? 

Relegation talk is beyond **** stupid, I know some don't like the phrase being used but it is knicker wetting 

People are just posting with emotion. I'm convinced you can't come out with takes like this after thinking about the situation for even 5 seconds. I have a newfound understanding for the term "kneejerk" thanks to this thread. It literally never occurred to me that it referred to the involuntary motion your leg does when the doctor hits your knee with that instrument. That's how people are posting. They felt bad about the loss yesterday and instead of taking a step back and analyzing the situation they just spew whatever comes to mind. Lost 3-2 in the 95th minute? Uh...we're getting relegated! Not even a cursory glance at the table to confirm.

[Nicho]

I think Mings and especially Tuanzebe has very poor games but I think Smith got the formation and the subs wrong yesterday. 

Im not a fan of the 3 at the back, it relies to heavily on Targett and Cash to be our creators, also seems to be a way of forcing Ings and Watkins to play together as strikers. Would prefer us to go 442 Smith insists on playing them both up top. 

 

[Keyblade]

4 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

Doesn't sound like a club who are going to be happy with a midtable finish this season?

 

Purslow admitted Villa’s inconsistent second half to the season had been a source of disappointment.

He said: “I am pretty pleased with the way things went. I think it is fair to say the firs half was better the second.

“The progression is clear in terms of the points we accumulated. I also liked the fact we had a number of big results against the traditionally stronger sides. But there is a little bit of regret that 11th does not quite reflect where we were for most of the season.

“For a long time it looked like we might be pushing for Europe but we missed out on that. So it was good but tinged with a little bit of regret.”

Maybe not, if you remove all context from the quote.

He was referring to our finish to last season. Where we were flirting with Europe for the majority of it and fell off after Jack's injury. He said he was pleased overall but there was a tinge of regret because of where we were earlier in the season, because just like all of us, our good start had given him hope. 

That says nothing of his expectations for this season, especially considering we lost Jack, whose absence last season was the main source for his disappointment. There's nothing in that quote that you can glean their expectations for this season. Unless of course you ignore the context to put words in his mouth I guess.

[Keyblade]

3 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I said in the match thread that whilst he has to take responsibility I’m not sure what he else he could have done in terms of subs. All three were enforced weren't they?  The players just lost their heads. 

Yeah I think I was being harsh about the Ramsey sub. He's been excellent this season and a like for like change for Buendia who asked to be taken off. The choice was either him or Sanson, or change the formation and potentially upset our balance (now that would have caught a lot of flak). I'm sure he's learned now that JJ is young and inconsistent and putting him on to see out a game might not always work out. I think this will see us sign an experienced midfielder, if not in January then in the summer.

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, Nicho said:

I think Mings and especially Tuanzebe has very poor games but I think Smith got the formation and the subs wrong yesterday. 

Im not a fan of the 3 at the back, it relies to heavily on Targett and Cash to be our creators, also seems to be a way of forcing Ings and Watkins to play together as strikers. Would prefer us to go 442 Smith insists on playing them both up top. 

 

centre midfield would be overrun, even more than it is, playing 442

[TrentVilla]

Just now, TRO said:

centre midfield would be overrun, even more than it is, playing 442

I agree, we would get murdered.

[Peter Griffin]

1 hour ago, fruitvilla said:

I think, as a group, that it is us fans that need  to understand the players, management and the game in general. The posts as a whole on VillaTalk in reaction to yesterday's match did not even reach the standard of amateurish. Amateurs can actually be good. They were infantile.

I ended up taking the afternoon off from VillaTalk yesterday it was generally so puerile.

 

I agree, the way people appear able to accept basic mistakes from players in our team is unbelievable. Suggesting it is just one of those things and these things happen is really silly, People need to realise that for Villa to move forward and up the league table we need to remove the sentimentality and be ruthless with every aspect of the club. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

I took a day away from the forum after the game. Not because I didn’t think Smith didn’t deserve criticism. More because I saw the usual suspects straight on to his forum to give him stick. It’s almost like they were just waiting for that final whistle so they could attack.   Had that 10 minutes of madness not happen they probably wouldn’t have even bothered posting in the thread. 
 

I get anger and emotions being high. But it sometimes start to feel like one or two just want to see him fail.  

[hippo]

21 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I took a day away from the forum after the game. Not because I didn’t think Smith didn’t deserve criticism. More because I saw the usual suspects straight on to his forum to give him stick. It’s almost like they were just waiting for that final whistle so they could attack.   Had that 10 minutes of madness not happen they probably wouldn’t have even bothered posting in the thread. 
 

I get anger and emotions being high. But it sometimes start to feel like one or two just want to see him fail.  

You really are overthinking it.

People always get on the manager when we lose. That isn't unique to DS , that's every manager since this forum came into being. Be the same for whoever follows DS.

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, hippo said:

You really are overthinking it.

People always get on the manager when we lose. That isn't unique to DS , that's every manager since this forum came into being. Be the same for whoever follows DS.

Fair point. 

[tomav84]

25 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I agree, the way people appear able to accept basic mistakes from players in our team is unbelievable. Suggesting it is just one of those things and these things happen is really silly, People need to realise that for Villa to move forward and up the league table we need to remove the sentimentality and be ruthless with every aspect of the club. 

nobody accepts basic mistakes. the difference between people (IMO) is that some view these mistakes as happening more frequenty than others. the way some people talk is like days like yesterday happen all the time, when we've not lost a 2 goal lead in 3 years before yesterday (happy to be corrected wrong).

and i'm not sure what you mean by the bolded part...are you talking about 'we' the fanbase? what ruthlessness should we be doing if so?

[fruitvilla]

30 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I agree, the way people appear able to accept basic mistakes from players in our team is unbelievable.

What I find strange is that reasonably intelligent adults don't seem understand that people make mistakes, even so called basic ones ... including Dean Smith

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

nobody accepts basic mistakes. the difference between people (IMO) is that some view these mistakes as happening more frequenty than others. the way some people talk is like days like yesterday happen all the time, when we've not lost a 2 goal lead in 3 years before yesterday (happy to be corrected wrong).

and i'm not sure what you mean by the bolded part...are you talking about 'we' the fanbase? what ruthlessness should we be doing if so?

We are making basic mistakes in a huge amount of the games we play. It is not just yesterday, it is a recurring problem. 

As regards the bit in bold. People need to stop thinking about the past brilliant results and performances that Smith and Mings and others have given Villa. We can't be sentimental. Mings is simply not good enough for us and Smith is starting to show too many of the same mistakes recurring in matches. If he can't fix these then he is the wrong man for the job imo