PussEKatt Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, villa4europe said: FFS... Based on what? The bottom 3 currently have 2 points, 3 points and 3 points, we are 7 points off them, we are 2 points off 7th and 5 off 4th The points per game ratio of 10 points from 8 games gets us to 48 points, last year that would have got us 11th, guess where we finished last year? Relegation talk is beyond **** stupid, I know some don't like the phrase being used but it is knicker wetting So, what you are accepting is that,we have spent all that money,we have bought better players,we supposidly have a much better/stronger team now and after all that 10 points from 8 games is ok ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 55 minutes ago, nick76 said: How often since? It’s rare and most clubs have it. Horrible to happen and you try to cut it out but will happen once in a while to all but the top few. I put a table up recently of how well we do in the last 15 mins so it is rare to collapse. Obviously he will backlash with the team today and tomorrow in training but we don’t collapse very often since that Leeds defeat. It depends how you look at it.....I have already answered this to another poster. its happened 5 times now in 2021 alone....not exactly the same, but similar in circumstance of being in the ascendency and losing the initiative or control and subsequently losing. Dean in his address, to the Leeds debacle said "it has happened too many times"....it has. This season alone with 8 games in, we have conceded 3 goals , 3 times....we have an issue in defending our goal and we have one of the best goalkeepers around. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 45 minutes ago, nick76 said: Ron Saunders? Jeez you have to go back that far to back up an argument. It’s funny that Dean celebrated 3 years, yet from bottom half of Championship to 55 points last season and Dean is compared to Ron from 40 years ago to make a point. I wasn't backing up any argument or comparing him to Ron....merely highlighting the mentality of the team, on the day. I think it just goes to show how many years we was in the doldrums, but I don't remember collapses under Gregory or Little either....there, does that help. Deans record with us is ...played 136 won 55 drawn 28 lost 53 win ratio 40.44%.......make of that what you will. I am not advocating a threat to Deans Position.....I was merely pointing out, it is misleading to deem it as a bad day at the office, In my view its a trait, that needs addressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 The loss yesterday was three times a bad loss, once because the manner of the defeat, twice because we needed to bounce back after the Tottenham defeat, and three because we really could have done with a win, knowing that Arsenal are next and it's going to be very hard to get something from that game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Just now, useless said: The loss yesterday was three times a bad loss, once because the manner of the defeat, twice because we needed to bounce back after the Tottenham defeat, and three because we really could have done with a win, knowing that Arsenal are next and it's going to be very hard to get something from that game. The latter two are completely dwarfed by the first one. The manner of the defeat was utterly utterly shameful and will psychological probably make it harder for us to hold leads in future games. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, romavillan said: Yep after a win the weaknesses get glossed over and after a loss the good play gets ignored. I doubt Smith is that short sighted though We've done ok so far, some disappointments and some great performances in defeat to go with the good results. I think we'll see some changes in shape and personnel soon enough. To be fair... The good stuff, does get a good airing when we have good wins like Man U and Everton.....and surprisingly we have good comments after the Chelsea defeat, because we could all see, the defensive errors that lead to it....The outplay was very good in that game. for sure, we still do good things when we lose, but that was a monumental collapse. to be honest, I thought John McGinn was awesome yesterday and that has nothing to do with his fine goal.....he went hunting for the ball, what good midfielders should do. I agree with you.....I think Dean was rattled by that yesterday and for me Hause would be straight back in, not because, I think he is the answer to all our ills, but for Dean to make a statement of intent, in not accepting that last 15 minutes dross. I think Dean has been too loyal to some, now to drop Mr Nice Guy, and show his metal. I am also beginning to think John McGinn should be wearing the arm band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: I'm not sure of that. I think there expectations are higher than most on here, as I don't think they would have invested so much money. I doubt they will spend 100 million a season to stay still, they will want a return on the investment sooner rather than later, we are not owned by oil. We didn’t spend 100m net in the summer though did we! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: Not really compared to other teams in league. Teams that are top 6 you mean. I would love to see this team under a manager like Tuchal. Would we get further up the table, 100% we would. For a start he would not accept the same mistakes and poor performances like Smith continues to! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: Not really compared to other teams in league. Its like a broken record, some people can't or won't see it, the majority of PL squads cost a lot of money, Leeds aside the teams above us last season all cost more, in most cases a hell of a lot more, arsenal for example who we apparently have to finish above this season put out a £500m team in their last game, including 5 £50m+ players 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 49 minutes ago, Mantis said: Even a standard bad day at the office where we lose 3-0 would probably be less sickening than that shitshow yesterday. Yesterday hurt so bad! On a longer term picture it was the Spurs game that worried me more. A 10 minute manic time can happen but Spurs was below par all game from start to finish. I think that worried me more after the uptick from Man U and Everton wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: We didn’t spend 100m net in the summer though did we! The net is a load of b*****. Basically we spent 95m on players and tried our best to get in 1 or 2 more. The team on paper should be an improvement on last season. Hopefully just the few injuries are holding us up. Although one thing I don't rate is Smith persisting with Ramsey, who for me is very ordinary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 42 minutes ago, TRO said: I am not convinced of that.....I accept the rhythm,of our play...... but not the ability to resist Wolves ability to win back the initiative/control.....That is my issue with Dougie and the other midfielders other than McGinn....They went on the front foot, because they had nothing to lose and the sheer momentum of their siege, bore dividends, we in contrast were swamped and physically overrun.....it needed big characters to weather that storm and ours never turned up at the back. Come on Dougie wasn't on the pitch when they took control. Plus his gas tank emptied due to the jetlag hence he got taken off. No jetlag he stays on and we win the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Teams that are top 6 you mean. I would love to see this team under a manager like Tuchal. Would we get further up the table, 100% we would. For a start he would not accept the same mistakes and poor performances like Smith continues to! Let’s go get Tuchel then….oh wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: Yesterday hurt so bad! On a longer term picture it was the Spurs game that worried me more. A 10 minute manic time can happen but Spurs was below par all game from start to finish. I think that worried me more after the uptick from Man U and Everton wins. I agree with this. Even the Everton performance wasn’t great. We were really good against Chelsea and Utd. The rest of the matches have been pretty poor for the most part with Watford and Spurs being the worst of it (closely followed by yesterday). Hopefully a fit Bailey and Sanson will lead to us going back to 4-3-3 and an upturn in form will follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, nick76 said: Fair enough but I obviously don’t agree given we looked reasonably comfortably at 2-0 with Dougie on the pitch, the game was basically over and the crowd chanted that way because Wolves looked dead and out in terms of coming back. I think you are being unfair to Dougie and our resistance. The subs, while I didn’t disagree with them given the circumstances, changed the game and allowed Wolves to gain the front foot. Our defenders then also turned in a sloppy, undisciplined 10 minutes and lost composure. Nick, it is all about opinions and I do respect yours, i also see grains of acceptabilty, even if I disagree . I thought before 80 minutes we were not comfortable and I turned to Carl Chinn and said so ( sorry for the name drop)....personally, I think it was coming, the siege, not the result.....I have seen this kind of thing before with Burnley, just bullying their way back in...West Brom did it in the semi final at the Hawthorns, its just clattering us, but teams get away with it. I have never been in favour of Doug or McGinn playing as a No 6.....I don't think they have the natural nose, for the role.....Its where, I differ from Dean.....but agree with manay other managers in the Prem who do have a recognisable 6. I am being told by some, the club, will get round to it, I am not so sure Dean see's an issue, but hey ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Just now, nick76 said: Let’s go get Tuchel then….oh wait! I'm not saying that, obviously I know we cannot get him, that's why I said "like Tuchel"! It's just I feel we can be better, Smith rarely gets everyone at 100% and we continue with the same errors and under performances season after season. We are a very inconsistent team, I don't see this with other teams, I see them being outplayed. Take Brighton or Brentford for example, they get beat on merit, rarely do I see poor performances or costly errors like when we lose games, an surely we have better players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, villa4europe said: But expectations based on what? Its coming across that people are criticising Smith and calling for his head on their own personal belief that he won't achieve their own personal expectations The negativity is incessant I'm not in the sack Smith camp, not many are, you must be reading @DCJonah posts to much. I just feel we rarely get the best out the squad, an it never changes. My expectations are based on beating the Everton's and the man U's who are supposed to be so much better than us. An that our loses come from poor performances and errors rather actually getting outplayed. Also missing out on European football last season maybe only because Grealish was out injured.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: I'm not in the sack Smith camp, not many are, you must be reading @DCJonah posts to much. I just feel we rarely get the best out the squad, an it never changes. My expectations are based on beating the Everton's and the man U's who are supposed to be so much better than us. An that our loses come from poor performances and errors rather actually getting outplayed. Also missing out on European football last season maybe only because Grealish was out injured.. We primarliy lose games against lower quality opposition, because we allow ourselves to be bulldozed out of the game. When we come up against better quality, they fancy their chances and let us play and when we are allowed to play....we can play very well. We need more diversity in the squad to help us face teams with an intent to stop us playing.....We have to be able to negate that. Edited October 17, 2021 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: I'm not in the sack Smith camp, not many are, you must be reading @DCJonah posts to much. I just feel we rarely get the best out the squad, an it never changes. My expectations are based on beating the Everton's and the man U's who are supposed to be so much better than us. An that our loses come from poor performances and errors rather actually getting outplayed. Also missing out on European football last season maybe only because Grealish was out injured.. Hang on, you can't have it both ways. You can't claim we were a one man team under Jack, but now he's gone, use the fact we might have got European football with him as a reason to have high expectations now. So because we beat two decent teams, we should finish above multiple other good teams? Clutching a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Just guess work here and I might be wrong but I think the owners aim was. Season 1: Survive Season 2: Establish ourselves midtable Season 3: Challenging for Europe It sounds like very rapid progress agreed but you can't ignore the 300 million spend 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts