Dean Smith

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

It is way in excess of 300m. It was 350m on player transfer fees plus the investment in infrastructure and facilities. All of this is there to help us achieve our goals

Is that a lot compared to big teams have invested over the last 5 years given we are playing catch up

[DCJonah]

14 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I would hope it is our CEO that makes the decision to sack him or not, that is his job and not the job of the owners. Owners set the high level strategy and funding and it is up to Purslow to deliver. If NSWE start interfering in the management of the club then I would expect Purslow to walk. That would be really bad for us

Yeah good point. Id imagine it would be. 

[villa4europe]

Just now, foreveryoung said:

No no it's net spend you have to worry about and that's only about 25p apparently 

Gross spend or net spend doesn't matter

The point is that £300m on the playing squad is not that much in comparison to the rest of the league, I would lazily guess that is around 10th

Not sure where we sit in the league in terms of wage bill

The idea that they've spent a load of money so we should be doing better doesn't wash when you take a quick look at everyone else rather than just us 

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Gross spend or net spend doesn't matter

The point is that £300m on the playing squad is not that much in comparison to the rest of the league, I would lazily guess that is around 10th

Not sure where we sit in the league in terms of wage bill

The idea that they've spent a load of money so we should be doing better doesn't wash when you take a quick look at everyone else rather than just us 

Not only that we have built from scratch effectively, they have been building on top of already established squads.

[Peter Griffin]

Just now, nick76 said:

Is that a lot compared to big teams have invested over the last 5 years given we are playing catch up

It is over 3 years that NSWE have invested the money and I would suspect they don't really care what the big have spent in the last 5 years. They will set their expectations for success based upon what they agreed with CP was a sufficient investment amount. If they feel that 350m+ should deliver a fight for Europa or top half finish then that is what will need to be delivered or CP and DS will have failed to deliver what they are tasked to deliver  

[mykeyb]

Dean is a big part of the bigger plan of integrating the young players from our overall setup however I still think we will have a minimum finish position and if the club fails maybe they will looking for someone else who can improve us.

[nick76]

6 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

It is over 3 years that NSWE have invested the money and I would suspect they don't really care what the big have spent in the last 5 years. They will set their expectations for success based upon what they agreed with CP was a sufficient investment amount. If they feel that 350m+ should deliver a fight for Europa or top half finish then that is what will need to be delivered or CP and DS will have failed to deliver what they are tasked to deliver  

Of course they will care what others have spent, it would give them a guide of what investment would be needed to build from scratch and then continually add season after season especially to survive, then move up the league, then consolidate, then challenge for Europe.  We also don’t know what their expectations are so a guess either way by fans.

[tom_avfc]

20 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

No no it's net spend you have to worry about and that's only about 25p apparently 

Why would we ignore transfer fees received though? We lost a player worth £100m. We then spent £95m on players in the summer. It seems pretty ludicrous to me to only look at the money spent.

By that logic if we lost our entire first team for around £300m but spent £50m to replace them you’d consider that £50m spent so we should kick on?

[Peter Griffin]

3 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Of course they will care what others have spent, it would give them a guide of what investment would be needed to build from scratch and then continually add season after season especially to survive, then move up the league, then consolidate, then challenge for Europe.  We also don’t know what their expectations are so a guess either way by fans.

But I said "They will set their expectations for success based upon what they agreed with CP was a sufficient investment amount". They will have evaluated what was needed to be spent and agreed this with CP. It doesn't matter after that. It is up to CP to deliver. If CP believes DS is underperforming he will likely be replaced. It really is that simply, there will be very little wiggle room. 

[DCJonah]

8 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

Why would we ignore transfer fees received though? We lost a player worth £100m. We then spent £95m on players in the summer. It seems pretty ludicrous to me to only look at the money spent.

By that logic if we lost our entire first team for around £300m but spent £50m to replace them you’d consider that £50m spent so we should kick on?

Excellent point. It doesn't help the argument if you acknowledge we lost our best player.

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said:

But I said "They will set their expectations for success based upon what they agreed with CP was a sufficient investment amount". They will have evaluated what was needed to be spent and agreed this with CP. It doesn't matter after that. It is up to CP to deliver. If CP believes DS is underperforming he will likely be replaced. It really is that simply, there will be very little wiggle room. 

I don't think Purslow is foolish enough to believe what we've done should see us get European football in our 3rd year back. 

[Wurzel]

Instead of looking at the negative I prefer to look at the positives, and with Dean as manager there are plenty, even in a game losing 3-2 at home. For a start we were in no trouble for 80 minutes against a Wolves side that have been playing fantastic football this season, and probably not got the points they deserve. Well they got lucky yesterday. Just watching those couple of interviews with Dean this month more than shows how fantastic it is he is our manager. Those that want him gone will never be convinced otherwise , so I'm not going to try, just to say I think he is doing a great job and with a tad more luck he would be in charge of a team threatening the top 6. Never underestimate how important stability can be for success UTV.

[blandy]

5 hours ago, TRO said:

I don't ever remember collapses under Ron Saunders, defeats yes, not collapses.

They happened. Leeds at home, 2-0 up for most of the game, Leeds score 2 right at the end for a 2-2 draw. Eddie Gray I think. Wolves at home we let in 3 in about 3 minutes just before half time, one easter game, and lost 3-1 (we were 1-0 up). Think  Gary Shaw scored for Villa.

Whether it's Dean Smith, or any other manager at any other time, their teams will have periods where they have these mental frailties - On the TV this week was Matt Le Tissier reminiscing with Gary Neville about how Southampton had gubbed Fergie's Man U 6-2 the week after Newcastle had gubbed Man U 5-0. It happens at various phases of all teams. A mixture of confidence, injury, luck, refereeing, bad decisions, player mistakes and all the rest is just part of the nature of the game.

The important point is for the manager, now, to address the underlying problems as you say. Others have commented on player selections and such like, which are not for this thread, anyway, but imbuing more cohesion and movement and Deano getting the formation right and injured players back will be a key.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I said in the match thread that whilst he has to take responsibility I’m not sure what he else he could have done in terms of subs. All three were enforced weren't they?  The players just lost their heads. 

[nick76]

11 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I don't think Purslow is foolish enough to believe what we've done should see us get European football in our 3rd year back. 

Agreed, he will know we need to do a lot more to be really competitive.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

They happened. Leeds at home, 2-0 up for most of the game, Leeds score 2 right at the end for a 2-2 draw. Eddie Gray I think. Wolves at home we let in 3 in about 3 minutes just before half time, one easter game, and lost 3-1 (we were 1-0 up). Thank Gary She scored for Villa.

Whether it's Dean Smith, or any other manager at any other time, their teams will have periods where they have these mental frailties - On the TV this week was Matt Le Tissier reminiscing with Gary Neville about how Southampton had rubbed Fergie's Man U 6-2 the week after Newcastle had rubbed Man U 5-0. It happens at various phases of all teams. A mixture of confidence, injury, luck, refereeing, bad decisions, player mistakes and all the rest is just part of the nature of the game.

The important point is for the manager, now, to address the underlying problems as you say. Others have commented on player selections and such like, which are not for this thread, anyway, but imbuing more cohesion and movement and Deano getting the formation right and injured players back will be a key.

Thanks Pete....but he was there nearly 8 years.

we have done it at least 5 times during 2021.....Dean himself was quoted after Leeds of saying " its happened too many times" and that was back then.

I don't accept the mitigation as happening in football,sure it may happens on the odd occasion....... with us I think its a trait we have it in us.Its happened too many times to be anything else....we are error prone.

Edited October 17, 2021 by TRO

[blandy]

Just now, TRO said:

Thanks Pete....but he was there nearly 8 years.

They happened in a similar period you’re talking about for Deano. There were others, too. Away at Forest in the league cup, against Everton at VP…. All in the 2 or 3 years at the end of the 70s from memory. I remember because they stung, too. I’m sure I could have mentioned Man Utd grey kit debacle at Southampton, too. Man City collapsing 5-0 at home to Leicester last year, Liverpool and Man Utd getting wallopings by Villa, Watford, Spurs last season. It’s football. It’s not unique to Villa or Dean Smith. Managers have to address these things, but they also need understanding from fans and CEOs to help them

[TRO]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

They happened in a similar period you’re talking about for Deano. There were others, too. Away at Forest in the league cup, against Everton at VP…. All in the 2 or 3 years at the end of the 70s from memory. I remember because they stung, too. I’m sure I could have mentioned Man Utd grey kit debacle at Southampton, too. Man City collapsing 5-0 at home to Leicester last year, Liverpool and Man Utd getting wallopings by Villa, Watford, Spurs last season. It’s football. It’s not unique to Villa or Dean Smith. Managers have to address these things, but they also need understanding from fans and CEOs to help them

When you see a fan putting his foot through a seat on the way out, despite our protestations....I think you can safely say emotions were running high....no accounting for idiots,I know.

like you I guess,  I am just hoping it was an isolated incident, but many mature fans around me, was less than understanding, more downright angry.

CEO's will inevitably take a less emotional view and a more calculated view, but like you say, he has to put a stop to that kind of capitulation....even Bruno Lage was surprised at the result he got from his players reaction...quite a present for a new manager.

Dean will have to dig deep and evaluate this, I'm sure he will......The reaction at the Emirates will be key.

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by TRO

[Pongo's Socks]

He's still learning on the job. Some will say that's not good enough considering the ambition we have. But the reality is, he's only 3 years into his first massive job, and we're only 3 years into being a 'proper' club again, after years in the wilderness (I mean numerous seasons of barely surviving in the Prem, along with the time in the Championship). The progression we've made since he came in is huge, that's undeniable. I like the patience that the board seem to have with him, they seem to have a long term plan, and see Deano as part of it, and look like they're willing to stick to it. Yes, he's had money. Yes, he still makes mistakes. Don't get me wrong, he frustrates the hell out of me sometimes. He can seem very stubborn at times. But I think Dean and the club are moving/improving at roughly the same rate. 

[Tayls]

I’ve had time to reflect after my very reactive response to yesterday’s shambles. I stand by what I said concerning the manner of the defeat. I think it was disgraceful, and I certainly have no time for any of the excuses being pushed around as to why it might have happened. It was embarrassing and Tyrone got it right during his post match interview - it was amateurish. 

In terms of relegation, as this is the thing that gets me slated by many for even mentioning the word, I don’t actually believe we will go down. I think there are far worse teams in this league. However, I do think we will be part of a scrap around that 15th, 16th 17th spot. I do not believe we have as good a squad as what many people make out. Surely everyone can see the weaknesses with the side during our play? 

We’ve only played well in 3.5 of the 8 games so far in my opinion. Lots of people saying we played well in so and so loss, however, we lost… that’s the thing. You don’t get points by playing well and losing. We need to move on from that mindset. 

There is a lot of work to be done, particularly by Smith. We can’t keep going into games and looking completely disjointed, not having an identity at this stage is terrible, especially after three seasons back in the Prem. 

If things don’t start improving, then Smith will be out and we’ll be heading into another period of transition. 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Tayls