Peter Griffin Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: What I find strange is that reasonably intelligent adults don't seem understand that people make mistakes, even so called basic ones ... including Dean Smith When u are earning millions of ££ per year and have one of the most sought after jobs in the world the very odd mistake is tolerable. Recurring mistakes are not acceptable and particularly so basic ones. If players repeatedly make them they should be not play for Villa Edited October 17, 2021 by Peter Griffin Fixed a typo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted October 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2021 5 hours ago, villalad21 said: Just guess work here and I might be wrong but I think the owners aim was. Season 1: Survive Season 2: Establish ourselves midtable Season 3: Challenging for Europe It sounds like very rapid progress agreed but you can't ignore the 300 million spend Don’t forget that Dean got us promoted a year ahead of schedule in the first place. And that’s not guesswork, it’s been stated as fact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Why does Potter get praised for the 'great' football Brighton supposedly play, but never criticized for the fact that they don't score enough, every time I watch them they look like they think they're better than are and over play it when they should be shooting, if we did that our manager would be getting lampooned, you could look at any team and say that they'd win more matches if only they did this or that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 minute ago, fightoffyour said: Don’t forget that Dean got us promoted a year ahead of schedule in the first place. And that’s not guesswork, it’s been stated as fact. And that is part of the reason he receives so much support from Purslow and has some credit in the bank when things are not going as well as they should. But that credit will not last for ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 13 hours ago, hippo said: Rightly or wrongly the head coach is responsible for results. If poor performance s and results persist he will get the sack. The coach - coaches and organises the players to limit mistakes to the abolosute minimunuim. One of the things they will have worked is closing out a game. As the organiser, motivator, tactician, - the head coach is accountable. Not as a one off - but if it keeps happening the finger will point squarely at the head coach. I'd say your right to an extent but if the players who are coming on are not doing all they can then what can a coach do. Let's face it we've been through this many a time before where our players look below there opponent. Coming on and playing like they did doesn't dissolve those players from blame and they all from Head Coach down to the players collectively have to say "hold on we massively dropped the ball here and we got it way to wrong" Our squad is capable of much we know that, yet when they start cocking up, they cock up big and make themselves look like the leagues amateurs. Dropping 3 goals in 15 minutes makes me want to scream at them, they did wonderfully till the first then Wolves just rallied and rallied. If there was an example of Shock and awe, that wolves match was it, it happened all in 15 minutes. One thing I will say against Smith is I know he wants to keep on cracking for more goals and to go and win the match. I mean come on really, if it means we drop all 3 points and let 3 goals when we've score 2 goals and lose in that 15 min shit show, then use common sense. I'm afraid smarter brains must prevail and its obvious go protect the points and change it to suit us. I'm sure if Smith had of pulled it off with his substitutes we would not be all here tearing the team and the staff to bits, we'd be singing his praise. We just won't ever get to Europe if Smith doesn't start behaving smarter when we're in a winning position or make a smarter choice regardless of his favorites. I don't think Axel and Young should be on the pitch, but they will be put on again and somewhere cost us again. I think if we're winning and comfortable then then defence all of a sudden starts being harassed, add extra security to the defence, don't go chasing more goals. I admire the way he chases games down win, lose or draw but for a club that's still ticking on and trying to be better sometimes a game we're winning to then keep going and going to put a game out of sight isn't always the best course of action. Pressure, that last 15 mins where did all the pressure go, its like we just changed our tune and stopped running at Wolves. We just became way to passive familiar sight because we become relaxed after scoring, sit off then become so passive that it effects out chasing down of the ball. For eighty mins our persistent movement of multiple players crowding Wolves was lovely then one goal went in, another and then the winner and not once did our lads try to change there tune in a 15 minute gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) People on here constantly use the fact that Brighton don't score their chances to excuse their poor points totals and Potter as a manager. He's just the latest manager that the press over hype and gullible suckers fall for it. Editor: I'm not saying he's a bad manager or doing a bad job, just that he's way overrated. Edited October 17, 2021 by useless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted October 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: And that is part of the reason he receives so much support from Purslow and has some credit in the bank when things are not going as well as they should. But that credit will not last for ever I wouldn’t expect it to last forever but I think he could easily be given that season back if you will as an extra one to consolidate, especially considering we lost our best player a week before it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted October 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: We are making basic mistakes in a huge amount of the games we play. It is not just yesterday, it is a recurring problem. As regards the bit in bold. People need to stop thinking about the past brilliant results and performances that Smith and Mings and others have given Villa. We can't be sentimental. Mings is simply not good enough for us and Smith is starting to show too many of the same mistakes recurring in matches. If he can't fix these then he is the wrong man for the job imo in your opinion. i don't see yesterday's mistakes as a recurring problem. we've been solid at set pieces until yesterday so you're not talking set piece errors presumably. all 3 subs yesterday were forced, and there were no complaints at the time with who came on to replace them. it's so easy to call them as mistakes after the event. and you say we should stop thinking about past brilliant results...man u was only 3 weeks ago ffs. we should forget about that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Let's see if you feel the same at the end of the season. Did you feel that way last year? Last year I thought DS had a reasonably good season. I think he should have got another 6 to 8 points though. But I supported him in his job and did not question his position. However, as far as I am concerned his honeymoon period at Villa ended at the end of last season. He has had the job for 3 years, has had and continues to have massive support. Its time to remove the 'still learning' sentiment and judge him on actual performances and results. No safety net, no second chance, deliver or move on. Edited October 17, 2021 by Peter Griffin Fixed a typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said: Last year I thought DS had a reasonably good season. I think he should have got another 6 to 8 points though. But I supported him in his job and did not question his position. However, as far as I am concerned his honeymoon period at Villa ended at the end of last season. He has had the job for 3 years, has had and continues to have massive support. Its time to remove the 'still learning' sentiment and judge him on actual performances and results. No safety net, no second chance, delivery or move on. Haha you talk like he's been poor the last few years and now his honeymoon period is over. Smith hasn't had a honeymoon period. He's delivered immediately, doing everything asked of him and then some. But of course, you'll want to ditch him the first time he fails to produce. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, useless said: People on here constantly use the fact that Brighton don't score their chances to excuse their poor points totals and Potter as a manager. He's just the latest manager that the press over hype and gullible suckers fall for it. We scored 2 goals, we should of held off in a defensive way but the mess ups in midfield and final 3rd of opponents half invited pressure onto us that didn't need inviting if we were made to of been more defensive. We don't need to keep trying to outscored opponents we've already outscored so I do not know where this Brighton thing comes from. We were 2 nil ahead against wolves so Brighton talk is irrelevant because we had the game and all Smith, Co and the players had to do was tactically change the game to suit us in a defensive way. Pull everyone back and take opportunities only if they arise and we could of been sitting on 3 points. We had to keep going for goals and trying to get balls up field all while we kept losing possession and not retrieving the ball. Another thing I picked up on is we kept playing it out from the back when under pressure, which cost us as well. Another mess up was our players would half assed clearing the ball from 80 mins on instead of just putting there foot through it and sending it down field and just clearing I hoof style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: What about going from barely surviving to comfortable mid table? Beating the cjampions 7-2. Beating Chelsea? Doing the double over Arsenal? Are we allowed to still enjoy those moments or do we have to diminish everything he's done to suit your idea that success only comes from being ruthless? What do you think it would take for Smith to lose his job? And, what do you THINK it should take for him to lose his job? (Just out of interest) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: Haha you talk like he's been poor the last few years and now his honeymoon period is over. Smith hasn't had a honeymoon period. He's delivered immediately, doing everything asked of him and then some. But of course, you'll want to ditch him the first time he fails to produce. We scraped survival with the aide of Goal Line Technology failing and a Covid break. We stayed up on the last day and Bournemouth threw their survival away. He most certainly has had a honeymoon period. I have supported Dean for 3 years. I have argued with people that we need to give him time. But he has now had his time and yes I would happily see him sacked if he fails to deliver this season. I would love to see him remain our gaffer for many years to come but only if he delivers constant year on year improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said: What do you think it would take for Smith to lose his job? And, what do you THINK it should take for him to lose his job? (Just out of interest) I think it would have to be a shit show of a season. I'd be reluctant to do it, unless it was really bad. Then next year I'd imagine he'd lose it, if we weren't a top half team and I'd probably agree with that as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted October 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: I am not referring to a single game. I am referring to promotion from the Championship and survival in the Premier League he's improved year on year since joining us. how's about we wait and see what happens this season before talks of honeymoon periods being over and being ruthless start? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 @Delphinho123 I know u didn't ask me but for what it is worth At end of season Keep is job: Finish in top 10 Lose his job: 13th or below 11th / 12th: A tough call and would depend on our performances over the season and any mitigating factors If at any stage this season we are dragged into the relegation battle he should be give 2 to 3 games to get us out of it and if he doesn't he should be sacked 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 minute ago, tomav84 said: he's improved year on year since joining us. how's about we wait and see what happens this season before talks of honeymoon periods being over and being ruthless start? But that is next May. This is only Oct and it is a Villa forum and we are posting on a thread titled Dean Smith. What are we meant to discuss? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted October 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: We scraped survival with the aide of Goal Line Technology failing and a Covid break. We stayed up on the last day and Bournemouth threw their survival away. He most certainly has had a honeymoon period. I have supported Dean for 3 years. I have argued with people that we need to give him time. But he has now had his time and yes I would happily see him sacked if he fails to deliver this season. I would love to see him remain our gaffer for many years to come but only if he delivers constant year on year improvement you do realise it's only opposition fans that use that line don't you to try and wind us up? i don't expect to see our own saying it...because it's not correct. we stayed up in SPITE of a corrupt word removed of a ref not allowing our equaliser vs palace. we were the best of those 4 teams in project restart and smith should be given a lot of credit for turning us around. in your opinion, what is 'failing to deliver'? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: I think it would have to be a shit show of a season. I'd be reluctant to do it, unless it was really bad. Then next year I'd imagine he'd lose it, if we weren't a top half team and I'd probably agree with that as well. Fair. Personally, I think he should keep the job pretty much unless we’re in a relegation scrap and there is a genuine chance we could go down. I think he gets one more decent sized window where we spend big (ish) and bring in another couple of players. He’s had to suffer the loss of Grealish this year so a season of consolidation can kind of be understood. The trouble he has is, he needs to be able to prove he can sustain a run of good form without Grealish as that’s what a lot of people measure him on. I thought he was on the verge of that after the Utd result but the last two results have been poor. I’d be very interested to know what the boards stance on it is. I think we did enough to stand still in the Summer window after losing Grealish, but they might be expecting us to kick on. (We should have signed another central midfielder) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 minute ago, tomav84 said: you do realise it's only opposition fans that use that line don't you to try and wind us up? i don't expect to see our own saying it...because it's not correct. we stayed up in SPITE of a corrupt word removed of a ref not allowing our equaliser vs palace. we were the best of those 4 teams in project restart and smith should be given a lot of credit for turning us around. in your opinion, what is 'failing to deliver'? Like it or not, the Blades ghost goal is a fact, it is not just something for opposition fans to beat us up with. It actually happened. And DS deserves a huge amount of credit for turning our season around and getting us to survive on the last day DS is failing to deliver consistency in performances and a clear playing style. Villa is like Jeykll and Hyde. That is not good enough at this stage. I want him to stay as gaffer but if he doesn't fix this he needs to be sacked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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