Dean Smith

[mikeyjavfc]

The international break has come at a good time for us and gives us time to reflect before the run in (would have been even better 2 weeks ago!). Dean now has 2 weeks to analyse our recent performances and plan for the games to come to mastermind a way back into form for the seasons end. Hopefully Grealish will line up for the remainder of the games the season. 

From the position we are in now, and considering this is the weirdest season ever, I will be happy if we maintain a top 10 finish and don’t slip further down the league. I’d be ecstatic with 7-8th and I think any higher is beyond us. I hope Dean has another worldly and finishes the season how we started it.

[sheepyvillian]

37 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I always take a complete day off from the site when we lose a game. Especially when we were shit.  Gives people a chance to calm down. 
 

Logged back on here yesterday and it’s quite relaxed.

If this is relaxed, then that in itself, speaks volumes. 

[mykeyb]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Absolutely. 

As a fan, I just want something to get behind and something to believe in. We have that. The players talk about what we are building. The owners are mega rich and have shown their ambition. 

We're on a journey, I don't get why some are so impatient. 

I agree with all of the above but does that mean I cannot question issues I see during a match?

[Vive_La_Villa]

16 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

If this is relaxed, then that in itself, speaks volumes. 

Was it that bad?   It was a horrible performance to be fair and the first 24 hours is just pure anger for some. After that you can take a step back and put things in to perceptive in terms of how far we have come but how fair we still have to go.  If anyone thinks there’s a quick fix then they’ll be disappointed.

[Mjvilla]

9 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

I agree with all of the above but does that mean I cannot question issues I see during a match?

If it was just questioning issues during a match then that's fine. Of course, the post you've quoted is quoting a post talking about how Fergie had calls for his head early into his reign...

I've seen multiple calls for the manager to be replaced in the last 36 hours.

This, for me, is mind blowing.

[OxfordVillan]

5 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Yeah because I'd much prefer our players drank and took drugs after training like players of old did.

Seriously are some people that upset that our players are playing video games in their own spare time. If that's the case then that's utterly ridiculous.

We didn't give a toss when we were winning, but a few crap results and we need to invent a reason to turn on our players.

 

The comparison you make is a ridiculous example of whataboutery. It’s not an either/or scenario, they shouldn’t be doing either. If you don’t think that playing computer games into the small hours has an effect on young mens demeanour and performance the folllowing day then I’d suggest you know little about it. I see with my own eyes the effect it has on our 18yr old lad and his mates when they’ve been gaming for hours on end, more so when it’s into the small hours. Eyes like pandas and zombie like, seemingly unable to fully take in what’s happening around them. For many it’s an addiction. And these are lads who have nothing to worry about other than stacking shelves at Sainsbury’s the next day, or rocking up in van to a building site. We’re talking about young men who are PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES. Special mention again of the word PROFESSIONAL. They cannot live like my lad, they are different whether they like it or not. They are paid to live differently, to look after themselves physically and mentally. They are paid to be the best they can possibly be, to be far superior to the young men stacking shelves in Sainsbury’s after a long night of gaming, or being out on the pi55. But those young men either out on the pi55 or gaming still have to be at work at a time that suits their employer, not the other way round. Or they end up getting sacked. I’d love to hear Messi or Ronaldos thoughts on starting training later to accommodate younger players nighttime gaming habits, I think it’d make interesting reading.

[osmark86]

13 minutes ago, OxfordVillan said:

The comparison you make is a ridiculous example of whataboutery. It’s not an either/or scenario, they shouldn’t be doing either. If you don’t think that playing computer games into the small hours has an effect on young mens demeanour and performance the folllowing day then I’d suggest you know little about it. I see with my own eyes the effect it has on our 18yr old lad and his mates when they’ve been gaming for hours on end, more so when it’s into the small hours. Eyes like pandas and zombie like, seemingly unable to fully take in what’s happening around them. For many it’s an addiction. And these are lads who have nothing to worry about other than stacking shelves at Sainsbury’s the next day, or rocking up in van to a building site. We’re talking about young men who are PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES. Special mention again of the word PROFESSIONAL. They cannot live like my lad, they are different whether they like it or not. They are paid to live differently, to look after themselves physically and mentally. They are paid to be the best they can possibly be, to be far superior to the young men stacking shelves in Sainsbury’s after a long night of gaming, or being out on the pi55. But those young men either out on the pi55 or gaming still have to be at work at a time that suits their employer, not the other way round. Or they end up getting sacked. I’d love to hear Messi or Ronaldos thoughts on starting training later to accommodate younger players nighttime gaming habits, I think it’d make interesting reading.

they shouldn't be doing anything that affects their performance/ability to do their job. I still haven't seen any irrefutable evidence of this so honestly don't see anything to be concerned about.

[danceoftheshamen]

Ok i'm gonna have a crack at trying to iron out some of the different opinions i see on here after games, especially poor performances / defeats. I know this is the Dean Smith Thread but this type of thing is going on in several posts above so hey ho!

I often see posters getting wound up by other posters reactions and indeed i get some posts aimed at me when i'm perhaps "venting" a little after a defeat or generally poor performance. 

There's clearly a bit of a mixed post game reaction by people on here and i think the trouble is after a defeat everyone to varying degrees is emotionally wound up/upset/frustrated or downright angry or worried by that particular days performance.

Some appear to instantly "go off" and angrily post about the performance / players (Guilty on occasion )

Some prefer to wait for those posters and then attack them for posting stuff like that, which in it's own right is likely because they too are wound up but they simply do not want to attack the players so instead attack other posters for attacking the players. 

Some just bide their time and avoid the chat until they have calmed down a day or two later which is probably the best option really although with not being able to attend games sometimes you just need to get your frustration out and where else is there? I guess if you have friends or others around you then you can have that post game analisys and discussion in person or on the phone but if you don't, venting on chat sites like this may be the only option.

For example as a fan of 45 years and home & away regular / season ticket holder for many of those years, AVFC means so much to me that if we play poorly, as we have been for a while now, i find it really annoying and being a little isolated over here in the East Mids my only real way of talking in out with other Villa Fans is on here. I can take defeats if we at least play ok and of course there will be the odd off day and form comes & goes. What i cannot deal with is when the players appear to lack concentration / focus persistently over a prolonged period. It drives me nuts as it feels as though they are disrespecting the shirt somehow. Being a fan for so long makes it very personal and having ventured all over the Uk and to places like Rotterdam and seen a great Villa team, i guess your standards get set a bit high and when those standards are not met personally i try to work out why and discuss it on here purely out of concern for the team.

Other Fans seem to take umbrance with this type of post however and have the approach that we should be grateful we are mid-table etc and that others have ridiculous expectations etc. Sometimes this very quickly results in all out attacks on or ridiculing of those posters who react in a different way to them!

So i think there is a lot of mis-understanding and mis-reading of posts (Texting afterall is always dangerous as it can be read in many different ways and is very easy to take the wrong way). 

The thing is Venting is merely a different way of reacting to a defeat and actually is prompted because this type of emotionally led fan truly cares about AVFC.  I can understand however why the other type of posters in the "support the players regardless" camp get annoyed by it. 

Really both approaches are just showing that we all care,  you just have differing personality types displaying it in different ways and i feel this is where a lot of "conflict" on here comes from. Maybe we could just have a bit more empathy for each others default emotional reaction immediately after a defeat? Don't immediately jump on other posters when emotions are running high?

It is different peronality types nothing more

We are all clearly fans and we all clearly care about the club on here, so peace brothers! 

Then again this is Villatalk 

[The Fun Factory]

Perhaps the break might be an advantage for us for Smith to press the reset button like last season. With Grealish coming back and big Wes possibly playing a cameo role, our forward options should be a lot better.  We have time to reverse the bad form and whilst I am not expecting a barnstorming finish I don't really want a  total collapse as that could feed into next season. I think we should still aim for top 10 and to get 50 points. If we can do that I would be very happy.

Edited March 23, 2021 by The Fun Factory

[est1874]

22 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

 

So we've shifted from best practice to accommodate Douglas Luiz's obsession with Call of Duty.

Fvcking ridiculous decision.

[osmark86]

24 minutes ago, danceoftheshamen said:

Ok i'm gonna have a crack at trying to iron out some of the different opinions i see on here after games, especially poor performances / defeats. I know this is the Dean Smith Thread but this type of thing is going on in several posts above so hey ho!

I often see posters getting wound up by other posters reactions and indeed i get some posts aimed at me when i'm perhaps "venting" a little after a defeat or generally poor performance. 

There's clearly a bit of a mixed post game reaction by people on here and i think the trouble is after a defeat everyone to varying degrees is emotionally wound up/upset/frustrated or downright angry or worried by that particular days performance.

Some appear to instantly "go off" and angrily post about the performance / players (Guilty on occasion )

Some prefer to wait for those posters and then attack them for posting stuff like that, which in it's own right is likely because they too are wound up but they simply do not want to attack the players so instead attack other posters for attacking the players. 

Some just bide their time and avoid the chat until they have calmed down a day or two later which is probably the best option really although with not being able to attend games sometimes you just need to get your frustration out and where else is there? I guess if you have friends or others around you then you can have that post game analisys and discussion in person or on the phone but if you don't, venting on chat sites like this may be the only option.

For example as a fan of 45 years and home & away regular / season ticket holder for many of those years, AVFC means so much to me that if we play poorly, as we have been for a while now, i find it really annoying and being a little isolated over here in the East Mids my only real way of talking in out with other Villa Fans is on here. I can take defeats if we at least play ok and of course there will be the odd off day and form comes & goes. What i cannot deal with is when the players appear to lack concentration / focus persistently over a prolonged period. It drives me nuts as it feels as though they are disrespecting the shirt somehow. Being a fan for so long makes it very personal and having ventured all over the Uk and to places like Rotterdam and seen a great Villa team, i guess your standards get set a bit high and when those standards are not met personally i try to work out why and discuss it on here purely out of concern for the team.

Other Fans seem to take umbrance with this type of post however and have the approach that we should be grateful we are mid-table etc and that others have ridiculous expectations etc. Sometimes this very quickly results in all out attacks on or ridiculing of those posters who react in a different way to them!

So i think there is a lot of mis-understanding and mis-reading of posts (Texting afterall is always dangerous as it can be read in many different ways and is very easy to take the wrong way). 

The thing is Venting is merely a different way of reacting to a defeat and actually is prompted because this type of emotionally led fan truly cares about AVFC.  I can understand however why the other type of posters in the "support the players regardless" camp get annoyed by it. 

Really both approaches are just showing that we all care,  you just have differing personality types displaying it in different ways and i feel this is where a lot of "conflict" on here comes from. Maybe we could just have a bit more empathy for each others default emotional reaction immediately after a defeat? Don't immediately jump on other posters when emotions are running high?

It is different peronality types nothing more

We are all clearly fans and we all clearly care about the club on here, so peace brothers! 

Then again this is Villatalk 

 

versus

Edited March 23, 2021 by osmark86

[Zatman]

43 minutes ago, est1874 said:

So we've shifted from best practice to accommodate Douglas Luiz's obsession with Call of Duty.

Fvcking ridiculous decision.

was no criticism when we beat Liverpool 7-2 or Arsenal 3-0 or when we stayed up

this change happened since 2020

[est1874]

18 minutes ago, Zatman said:

was no criticism when we beat Liverpool 7-2 or Arsenal 3-0 or when we stayed up

this change happened since 2020

I'd never heard about it until now. 

Recency bias notwithstanding, it is still objectively a ridiculous thing to do.

Like many of my colleagues, I like staying up drinking and watching Netflix til 3am, doesn't mean the business shifts working hours for the entire workforce.

Smith is and has always been too soft on the players, they might like to act like petulant children from time to time, but the reality is they're not. 

Treat them like children and they will behave like children, and that gets reflected in the attitudes and accountability out on the pitch when things aren't going our way. Case in point - we've yet to win a game coming from behind this season.

Mings allegedly shouted "be braver" at his teammates after we conceded the first goal to Spurs. It's telling, for me, that he felt the need to do that.

[Mjvilla]

13 minutes ago, est1874 said:

I'd never heard about it until now. 

Recency bias notwithstanding, it is still objectively a ridiculous thing to do.

Like many of my colleagues, I like staying up drinking and watching Netflix til 3am, doesn't mean the business shifts working hours for the entire workforce.

Smith is and has always been too soft on the players, they might like to act like petulant children from time to time, but the reality is they're not. 

Treat them like children and they will behave like children, and that gets reflected in the attitudes and accountability out on the pitch when things aren't going our way. Case in point - we've yet to win a game coming from behind this season.

Mings allegedly shouted "be braver" at his teammates after we conceded the first goal to Spurs. It's telling, for me, that he felt the need to do that.

Can you find some evidence of this please? Something that suggests, factually, he is too soft. I don't see this change as being too soft, I see it as trying to change with the times. I don't necessarily agree with the change.

Again, I don't do social media so if there's something factually there, I probably have missed it.

[Zatman]

14 minutes ago, est1874 said:

I'd never heard about it until now. 

Recency bias notwithstanding, it is still objectively a ridiculous thing to do.

Like many of my colleagues, I like staying up drinking and watching Netflix til 3am, doesn't mean the business shifts working hours for the entire workforce.

Smith is and has always been too soft on the players, they might like to act like petulant children from time to time, but the reality is they're not. 

Treat them like children and they will behave like children, and that gets reflected in the attitudes and accountability out on the pitch when things aren't going our way. Case in point - we've yet to win a game coming from behind this season.

Mings allegedly shouted "be braver" at his teammates after we conceded the first goal to Spurs. It's telling, for me, that he felt the need to do that.

It only got released in an interview he did recently when he said the club made some changes during the last lockdown to help improve things. He also said he spoke to some professionals about it so its not like he just thought this up

I rarely see any of the Villa squad or players acting petulant at times, we have one player that I can imagine gets out of line with a couple of off field antics and he is the world class player. The rest all seem like model professionals

[TRO]

6 hours ago, nick76 said:

“Age is subjective” 

Ibrahimovic (39), still playing at Milan

Claudio Pizarro was 41 when retired last season at Werder Bremen

Gareth Barry was 39 when he retired

 

So should we be throwing in 40 year old men.  I’m being facetious now obviously but picking the rare examples at end of the spectrum doesn’t help the argument.  Do you really think the kids mentioned are ready and should be thrown into the current slump we are in? I don’t think they ready and I also don’t think you throw them into a team in this kind of slump.

Two things.

• If they are good enough, they are ready.....they usually need more time, when they need to get better. Those are the hard facts.
• I accept its not a good time, whilst we are in this form dip, they need to come in to a fluid and confident set up.

What tomorrow may bring is anyones guess....I prefer to comment on whats in front of me....The "jam tomorrow" argument is just what it is , speculation.....We have the same with Wesley, when no one has a clue how he will come back from that horrific injury...its just hope.

I think the rare examples as you call them are not exhaustive...I could go on, it was just a small sample.....Christian Purslow, was right about, young players still playing in the under 23's at 22.....its because, no one wants to admit, they are not good enough.

Its not all about a tricky dribble or a fantastic shot from 25 yards out, in the under 23's....its about competing for most of the game and showing a physical adaption to the game and a maturity in decision making....its about looking totally out of place due to the sublime ability of the young player.

In my experience, if a young player plays in the first team, for a fair while and still there are doubts or ums and ahs.....the chances are they will end up in the lower leagues.....when Gray, Shaw and Barry come on the scene, I personally, remember saying  wow, what a player for their age....it hits you like a steam train, there are no ums and ahs....fans usually turn to each other and say, did you see that, they carry it on in the pub after the match, " did you see that kid" ....thats the response, you usually get, when you have a good one.

Doubt is for a reason.

 

[DCJonah]

41 minutes ago, est1874 said:

I'd never heard about it until now. 

Recency bias notwithstanding, it is still objectively a ridiculous thing to do.

Like many of my colleagues, I like staying up drinking and watching Netflix til 3am, doesn't mean the business shifts working hours for the entire workforce.

Smith is and has always been too soft on the players, they might like to act like petulant children from time to time, but the reality is they're not. 

Treat them like children and they will behave like children, and that gets reflected in the attitudes and accountability out on the pitch when things aren't going our way. Case in point - we've yet to win a game coming from behind this season.

Mings allegedly shouted "be braver" at his teammates after we conceded the first goal to Spurs. It's telling, for me, that he felt the need to do that.

You must have lots of evidence to support this and then lots of evidence as to why its such a negative. Given the massive improvement since he became our manager. 

[YouUnastanFren]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You must have lots of evidence to support this and then lots of evidence as to why its such a negative. Given the massive improvement since he became our manager. 

If he was tougher on them we'd have been so good we'd have been granted early promotion to the Premier League three quarters of the way through the 18/19 season. We'd then have amassed 36 points in the 9 remaining games and avoided relegation. From there we'd have finished in the European places last year after rebuilding the squad entirely and would now be fighting City on all four fronts.

But oh no, Dean 'pushover' Smith only had us promoted at the end of his first season in a conventional way, only avoided relegation narrowly after the complete squad rebuild and only has us sitting in the top half of the table now, nowhere near the title race.

His weak willed approach of treating the players as colleagues rather than naughty children has meant he's failed at every hurdle and has to go.

[Zatman]

Its funny that its only Villa fans consistently having a go at the manager or random blues or leeds fans. He is probably still a contender for manager of the season, he wont win it but he is in the running 

Taking a team from 17th up the table not good enough for some yet Bruce and Lambert got so much support from similar posters

[TRO]

3 hours ago, Indigo said:

At the turn of the year we were sat in 5th while level on points with 4 other teams, 3 of which were City, Chelsea and Spurs. I think to expect to fend off those sides over the course of over 20 remaining games given the respective quality of all the squads involved is a bit unrealistic at best and bordering on just an outright unfair criticism.

Our league position isn't a concern for me at all at the moment, it's just the manner of our recent performances, specifically concerning our ability to create chances and generally retain the ball. Our unexpectedly great start to the season has only really given the coaching staff credit in the bank on that front for me rather than grounds for some of the derision I've seen. There's plenty of time left in the season for a turnaround to be made and I think it's just as possible that we manage that in some form as there us for us to completely fold and drop to 13th/14th or wherever.

None a given obviously but if we could beat Fulham, Palace and West Brom - which while completely feasible watch us get battered in each now that I've said that - and possibly nab a draw here or there across the more difficult fixtures remaining we'll have accrued a points total that in recent seasons has seen teams finish in the 7th-8th sort of range. Put in perspective like that it really won't take much for us to manage what would still represent a significantly successful season even with the context of this run we're on taken into account, and be in an even stronger position than anticipated to be able to continue to build.

 

...cue a 10 game losing streak.

 

I think you make good points....my prediction at the start of the season was 12th, so no complaints from me on Current league placing.

but the devil, is in the detail.....If you watch carefully our games of late, there are weaknesses aplenty, sadly its not just one player, its several.....now everyone has their own take on what is wrong, just like me, and it is no way, one factor, but lets just focus on one factor, for a moment.

How on earth do we expect to get anything from a game, when we give the ball away, with such benevolence....its actually, alarming the regularity that we do it.....its turned progressive football( early season) to turgid drivel....and we keep doing it.

FWIW I don't think its just Jack missing, sure he is the talisman, but surely confidence is not that fragile that we can't play without him....if that is the case, we are just sitting ducks, from opponents....and put question marks on our overall progression.

Only, when you look at the other factors that we are weak at, does the depression start to take shape....I am not going to mention them, in fear of distraction from the above.....we simply can't keep giving it away.

Some fans need to watch the play and not keep referring back to the league table, for comfort....we was brilliant for the first 13 games, but that form has disipated to the level of a team fighting relegation.....some honest answers need to be sought and the head needs to be removed from the sand.