Dean Smith

[tomav84]

7 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I think on paper we have a strong spine, but too many have lost form/ underperformed at the same time.

Even in our best performances, 1 or 2 would have an off game, which was carried by the overall team performance.

Problem now is, too many of them are having poor games at the same time.

exactly. an in form mcginn, luiz, watkins and traore walk into most of the non-elite PL teams

[AvfcRigo82]

5 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I think on paper we have a strong spine, but too many have lost form/ underperformed at the same time.

Even in our best performances, 1 or 2 would have an off game, which was carried by the overall team performance.

Problem now is, too many of them are having poor games at the same time.

I wouldn't worry JV, we're progressing!

It's been evident in two different leagues that the manager struggles without Grealish and has no real plan B at times either, but that doesn't matter.

Even if we finished 15th this season it's still remarkable and a huge improvement on last season's position (where we just survived) and it highlights the great job Smith is doing in taking us forward.

We're also still a year behind where we should be apparantly, so we must maintain the status quo and enjoy the journey and the wonderful job Smith is doing.   

I think if he gets another £100m+ to spend in the next window and we go on to finish 12th next season then that will be another remarkable achievement, maybe even a worthy mention of a manager of the season.

[Mjvilla]

1 hour ago, Lerner's Driver said:

This quote has no doubt already been covered on here, but it struck me as pertinent...

"I always said, the first year in the Premier League is a tough year. The second year, you can have a real strong starting XI. But in the third year you are looking to grow your squad depth, and improve on that starting XI."

... to my eyes, it establishes a clear timeframe for accountability, as laid out by the man himself.

It's apparent to everyone, Smith included, that we must buy more and better quality players this summer to continue progressing.

Assuming we are successful in doing that, there will almost certainly be an immediate expectation to deliver - we can debate all we like how fair that is given the circumstances, but it's just how most top teams operate.

To me, that adds up to next year being make or break for the manager. There certainly won't be as much leeway for another massive drop off like we are currently experiencing.

No pressure then.

Very much how I see it, bit in bold. We are exactly where we expected to be, given our restraints. Next season, I'd like to think 8-6 place would be the aim. Of management and fans. 

We have a starting XI nearly good enough for that, we have the squad depth of a relegation side. We have to develop and get better this summer. Dean has done an incredible job, but it will count for nothing if we NEXT SEASON we aren't continuing that improvement. Becoming more consistent in performances. 

@TRO, I don't see it as taking comfort in the league table. I don't see myself as having my head in the sand. I think I'm being more realistic. Of course we are going to be inconsistent. Of course we are going to make mistakes. Have we run out of steam a bit? Potentially, yes. We can't rotate because the state of our squad in general. Do I have my head in the sand because I trust the manager to continue the progression and correct the wrongs we see?

Am I wrong to call out people saying we should sack the manager now? Based upon year, upon year of progress? 

I think to say the first 13 games were excellent and not more is very, very harsh. The slump has only really kicked in recently for me. Even up to arsenal at home. A deserved, tactical, win in which we should've won by more. Leeds away similar. Wolves at home I thought we were excellent first half. 

TO expect us to play to the level we did all season, with our squad depth is bordering on insane. We have achieved a very high level of performance (even in games we've lost man utd away, man city away, Burnley away to name a few) in much more than 50% of our games this season, in my opinion.

We've seen a clear negative trend without Grealish, and I'd agree that needs sorting. We have to find a way to win regularly without him. But it's all part of our development, for sure!

 

[TRO]

5 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

Very much how I see it, bit in bold. We are exactly where we expected to be, given our restraints. Next season, I'd like to think 8-6 place would be the aim. Of management and fans. 

We have a starting XI nearly good enough for that, we have the squad depth of a relegation side. We have to develop and get better this summer. Dean has done an incredible job, but it will count for nothing if we NEXT SEASON we aren't continuing that improvement. Becoming more consistent in performances. 

@TRO, I don't see it as taking comfort in the league table. I don't see myself as having my head in the sand. I think I'm being more realistic. Of course we are going to be inconsistent. Of course we are going to make mistakes. Have we run out of steam a bit? Potentially, yes. We can't rotate because the state of our squad in general. Do I have my head in the sand because I trust the manager to continue the progression and correct the wrongs we see?

Am I wrong to call out people saying we should sack the manager now? Based upon year, upon year of progress? 

I think to say the first 13 games were excellent and not more is very, very harsh. The slump has only really kicked in recently for me. Even up to arsenal at home. A deserved, tactical, win in which we should've won by more. Leeds away similar. Wolves at home I thought we were excellent first half. 

TO expect us to play to the level we did all season, with our squad depth is bordering on insane. We have achieved a very high level of performance (even in games we've lost man utd away, man city away, Burnley away to name a few) in much more than 50% of our games this season, in my opinion.

We've seen a clear negative trend without Grealish, and I'd agree that needs sorting. We have to find a way to win regularly without him. But it's all part of our development, for sure!

 

My comments were not made to individuals, it was a generalisation to folk, who seem to think critique is a dirty word.

Fans, see what they see and are entitled to thie view as you are......I look at games and digest, what I see, I do not embroil on mitigation, I just report what I see, I don't look for reasons, I just report what I see.....Its not ungrateful or dismissive of the overall progress, it is simply commenting on the game that has just taken place.....if it is repetitive, its usually because the performances are repetitive......We give the ball away too easily and regularly without a wimper, that has happened too many times of late, you cannot expect anything from a game, if you do that....The reasons for it are plenty and it opens up a pandora's box of opinions.....but the facts are, we do it.

To win every game is insane, to be at peak performance in one of the hardest leagues in the world constantly, is insane.....To not do some of the basics in football, for too many games is questionable and food for thought....that is the point.

Constuctive criticism is positive, not negative, it is not to be confused....How do we ever learn, if we stay silent.

We have clearly got positives from this season and the points so far, is more than credible, but that is not what some of us are questioning, its basic, fundamental actions during games, that are disturbing.

All fans, watch the game in their own way, they see things through their own lens and interpret the game accordingly......some like the flamboyancy, some like the doggedness, so they will focus on it, that is perfectly understandable.

as just one example, I am from an older generation, where heading the ball was far more acceptable than it is today....I watch some of our old highlights and it reminds me how we relied upon good aerial work in some of our past glories.....I watch us today and our aerial work fills me with melancholy...its just another element of our play lost in incompetency.....but I guess and younger fan would baulk at that.

We all want the best for our club, we just all have our varying opinions on it.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by TRO

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I wouldn't worry JV, we're progressing!

It's been evident in two different leagues that the manager struggles without Grealish and has no real plan B at times either, but that doesn't matter.

Even if we finished 15th this season it's still remarkable and a huge improvement on last season's position (where we just survived) and it highlights the great job Smith is doing in taking us forward.

We're also still a year behind where we should be apparantly, so we must maintain the status quo and enjoy the journey and the wonderful job Smith is doing.   

I think if he gets another £100m+ to spend in the next window and we go on to finish 12th next season then that will be another remarkable achievement, maybe even a worthy mention of a manager of the season.

Haha I can't believe the manager of your football club, doing well, can wind you up so much. 

Brilliant. 

[weedman]

8 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Haha I can't believe the manager of your football club, doing well, can wind you up so much. 

Brilliant. 

Its quite telling as well that he clearly sees the praise Smith is getting is unwarranted, but at the same time knows he has to strawman the points to make them seem silly, I'd assume because if he used our actual position in the table, and actual praise Smith is getting from supporters, his post would be completely reasonable and no-one would know it was meant to be sarcastic. 

I wonder how someone can get to a point where they know that the praise a manager is getting is justified, they know our position in the table is great, they know that we're showing tremendous improvement year on year (because if they didn't they wouldn't need to exaggerate these points so much), and rather than be happy about that, decide the best thing to do is to make stuff up that hasn't happened, get angry about it, and rant on a messageboard because barely anyone agrees with you. I don't get it, but each to their own

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, weedman said:

Its quite telling as well that he clearly sees the praise Smith is getting is unwarranted, but at the same time knows he has to strawman the points to make them seem silly, I'd assume because if he used our actual position in the table, and actual praise Smith is getting from supporters, his post would be completely reasonable and no-one would know it was meant to be sarcastic. 

I wonder how someone can get to a point where they know that the praise a manager is getting is justified, they know our position in the table is great, they know that we're showing tremendous improvement year on year (because if they didn't they wouldn't need to exaggerate these points so much), and rather than be happy about that, decide the best thing to do is to make stuff up that hasn't happened, get angry about it, and rant on a messageboard because barely anyone agrees with you. I don't get it, but each to their own

It's mind blowing. 

It's the same with all the doomsday predictions if we don't finish top half. They know they can't point to the league table, so they have to create these scenarios to justify why they're so unhappy.

We haven't been a stable midtable team since MON left, but it's a disaster that Smith is turning us into one. 

With promotion and keeping us up, He's had a major positive impact on the future of this club, even after he leaves. Who was the last manager we could say that about?

[YouUnastanFren]

3 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Even if we finished 15th this season it's still remarkable and a huge improvement on last season's position (where we just survived) and it highlights the great job Smith is doing in taking us forward.

Your fantasy of us finishing 15th so you can be proved right about how rubbish Smith is seems extremely unlikely even if our poor form continues. We're 1/4 to finish top 10. I would usually use relegation odds to try and gauge the likelihood of a 15th place finish but nobody is even offering odds on us anymore.

Five thirty-eight have us with a <1% chance of us finishing 15th fwiw.

@weedman is right, using a straw man that weak is doing nothing for the credibility of your argument.

[nick76]

1 minute ago, YouUnastanFren said:

Your fantasy of us finishing 15th so you can be proved right about how rubbish Smith is seems extremely unlikely even if our poor form continues. We're 1/4 to finish top 10. I would usually use relegation odds to try and gauge the likelihood of a 15th place finish but nobody is even offering odds on us anymore.

Five thirty-eight have us with a <1% chance of us finishing 15th fwiw.

@weedman is right, using a straw man that weak is doing nothing for the credibility of your argument.

Current 14th and 15th are 8 points behind us, -24 goal difference and have played one more game than us with 9 games to go. 13th is only two points better.  

We would almost have to get zero points in the next 11 games to fall that low.  The last five seasons 13th has averaged 42 to 45 points.

Despite our really poor current form even the worst doom mongers on this site must feel that we’ll get more than 4 points in the next 11 games surely?  So saying 14th or 15th in their statements is just trying to get a reaction from people.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Did anybody actually say finishing 14th or 15th would be progression?

 I think finishing bottom half whilst not the end of the world, would be disappointing. Especially after the first half of the season. 
 

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Did anybody actually say finishing 14th or 15th would be progression?

 I think finishing bottom half whilst not the end of the world, would be disappointing. Especially after the first half of the season. 
 

This the rational point of all of it!

Outliers of 14th/15th now and earlier in the season being top six was just unrealistic.

We still have a chance for top 8, we still have a chance of 12th but we are more likely given the form of teams, games remaining, points difference that we’ll end up 9th to 11th.

Hopefully we can stay in top half.

[Indigo]

Claiming you're being denied having an opinion one day and then parodying people that have the cheek to have a different opinion from you to the point of absurdity only the next day is peak VT man.

[Demitri_C]

18 hours ago, Zatman said:

Leicester are miles ahead of us and arent even conparable. They were playing Champions League and in the same season we were signing McCormack and Hogan

They have big money and are in a different level to us

I havent said they aint what im saying is thats what makes them better than us.  They dont implode when one of their key players is out.

When grealish gets injured the fans get anxious and the team performs poorly. We will never achieve anything like this. If we want to be successful we have to adopt what leicester have and stop looking at grealish as our saviour

[TRO]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

It's mind blowing. 

It's the same with all the doomsday predictions if we don't finish top half. They know they can't point to the league table, so they have to create these scenarios to justify why they're so unhappy.

We haven't been a stable midtable team since MON left, but it's a disaster that Smith is turning us into one. 

With promotion and keeping us up, He's had a major positive impact on the future of this club, even after he leaves. Who was the last manager we could say that about?

So lets get to the nitty gritty of why many folk are unhappy.

why do we give the ball away, so easily and so regularly, during a game.?

what is your opinion on that?

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

It's mind blowing. 

It's the same with all the doomsday predictions if we don't finish top half. They know they can't point to the league table, so they have to create these scenarios to justify why they're so unhappy.

We haven't been a stable midtable team since MON left, but it's a disaster that Smith is turning us into one. 

With promotion and keeping us up, He's had a major positive impact on the future of this club, even after he leaves. Who was the last manager we could say that about?

I dont see many people saying Smith should be sacked . But merely pointing out that recent form is poor and not good enough.

 how dare anyone criticise dean smith. Hang them ! 

[DCJonah]

22 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I dont see many people saying Smith should be sacked . But merely pointing out that recent form is poor and not good enough.

 how dare anyone criticise dean smith. Hang them ! 

The fact you think that is funny. 

Lots of people have offered fair criticism and opinions. The posts that get jumped on are the delusional, insane posts that can't help but insult and criticise the manager just for the sake of it. You'll find it's the same people who have been doing it since day 1. 

[DCJonah]

25 minutes ago, TRO said:

So lets get to the nitty gritty of why many folk are unhappy.

why do we give the ball away, so easily and so regularly, during a game.?

what is your opinion on that?

At the moment, I think lack of confidence, fitness (mental and physical) and a lack of quality. 

Our midfield seem really out of form and whilst we've tried different combinations, none have really stepped up. 

 

[Demitri_C]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

The fact you think that is funny. 

Lots of people have offered fair criticism and opinions. The posts that get jumped on are the delusional, insane posts that can't help but insult and criticise the manager just for the sake of it. You'll find it's the same people who have been doing it since day 1. 

Because its abit dramatic. Its a forum some will argue thwie case with others agree thats a forum for you.

Im not sure if youe putting me in that catergory but ive explained on various on occasions what im happy about lately with smith. Not just for the aake of it or trolling.

Do i want smith out? No

Do i want to see improvement? Yes

 

[sparrow1988]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

So lets get to the nitty gritty of why many folk are unhappy.

why do we give the ball away, so easily and so regularly, during a game.?

what is your opinion on that?

IMO it's a combination of factors;

Losing the best player at holding on to the ball in the league naturally leads to giving the ball away more often.

A change in style from using Mings to build up from the back to more direct balls forward. It doesn't matter who you are, this is a ball you are less likely to win than using short accurate passing with quick movement. This started before Grealish got injured.

The enforced two week break in training leading to reduced fitness and less time to work on tactics (ignoring potential covid infections because each player will have reacted differently). This was then compounded by lots of matches in a short space of time. Again less time to work on tactics and time in between matches essentially just being used for recovery.

A small pool of talent resulting in the same players playing over and over, again leading to an increase in fatigue. We have a squad which is very much in the building process. A few injuries to our main players and there is a very big drop in quality (some bigger than others) to the replacements.

A team mentally switching off after they have more or less securing their status in the league. This is a combination of the players needing to be more self-motivated and the coaching staff sending a rocket up their backsides if they're slacking off.

General dips in form. We seem to have had a lot of players out of form at the same time, especially in midfield. Might be related to "being safe" point above. Might be related to covid. No one really knows.

All of the above points combined will lead to poor performances. We have a two week break now where there is a lot of time to work on things and I hope and expect to see a big improvement after the break.

[Mjvilla]

39 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I havent said they aint what im saying is thats what makes them better than us.  They dont implode when one of their key players is out.

When grealish gets injured the fans get anxious and the team performs poorly. We will never achieve anything like this. If we want to be successful we have to adopt what leicester have and stop looking at grealish as our saviour

Have a quick look through their fans opinions and record when vardy was out for the last few years. I think it would be markedly different and I remember their fans opinions of Rodgers at these times... A number wanted him gone.