Dean Smith

[AvfcRigo82]

24 minutes ago, Zatman said:

He is probably still a contender for manager of the season, he wont win it but he is in the running 

Taking a team from 17th up the table not good enough for some yet Bruce and Lambert got so much support from similar posters

Had he done it on a shoestring budget he would be lauded as manager of the season hands down.

The fact is that he has spent the most money than any other team/manager outside the top 4 in the last two seasons and he is still reliant on Jack Grealish is becoming a bit of a piss take to many of us.

[osmark86]

25 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think you make good points....my prediction at the start of the season was 12th, so no complaints from me on Current league placing.

but the devil, is in the detail.....If you watch carefully our games of late, there are weaknesses aplenty, sadly its not just one player, its several.....now everyone has their own take on what is wrong, just like me, and it is no way, one factor, but lets just focus on one factor, for a moment.

How on earth do we expect to get anything from a game, when we give the ball away, with such benevolence....its actually, alarming the regularity that we do it.....its turned progressive football( early season) to turgid drivel....and we keep doing it.

FWIW I don't think its just Jack missing, sure he is the talisman, but surely confidence is not that fragile that we can't play without him....if that is the case, we are just sitting ducks, from opponents....and put question marks on our overall progression.

Only, when you look at the other factors that we are weak at, does the depression start to take shape....I am not going to mention them, in fear of distraction from the above.....we simply can't keep giving it away.

Some fans need to watch the play and not keep referring back to the league table, for comfort....we was brilliant for the first 13 games, but that form has disipated to the level of a team fighting relegation.....some honest answers need to be sought and the head needs to be removed from the sand.

Now this is relevant and constructive critique and I agree this is a problem currently. We tend to struggle holding on to meaningful possession.

Personally I think it's down to current form and that we will see better form again like earlier in the season. We have shown we can play really well and now we are showing some of our frailties as well. I'm not too worried though because of the former. We know what we are capable of and I trust DS and the staff knows this too and are working on it.

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Had he done it on a shoestring budget he would be lauded as manager of the season hands down.

The fact is that he has spent the most money than any other team/manager outside the top 4 in the last two seasons and he is still reliant on Jack Grealish is becoming a bit of a piss take to many of us.

Phew we are changing goal posts now. How dare he get promoted with Elmo, Hutton, Adomah, Whelan and Jedinak

He is punished by his own success

[Indigo]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think you make good points....my prediction at the start of the season was 12th, so no complaints from me on Current league placing.

but the devil, is in the detail.....If you watch carefully our games of late, there are weaknesses aplenty, sadly its not just one player, its several.....now everyone has their own take on what is wrong, just like me, and it is no way, one factor, but lets just focus on one factor, for a moment.

How on earth do we expect to get anything from a game, when we give the ball away, with such benevolence....its actually, alarming the regularity that we do it.....its turned progressive football( early season) to turgid drivel....and we keep doing it.

FWIW I don't think its just Jack missing, sure he is the talisman, but surely confidence is not that fragile that we can't play without him....if that is the case, we are just sitting ducks, from opponents....and put question marks on our overall progression.

Only, when you look at the other factors that we are weak at, does the depression start to take shape....I am not going to mention them, in fear of distraction from the above.....we simply can't keep giving it away.

Some fans need to watch the play and not keep referring back to the league table, for comfort....we was brilliant for the first 13 games, but that form has disipated to the level of a team fighting relegation.....some honest answers need to be sought and the head needs to be removed from the sand.

I agree with you, my general points re: referencing the league table was just to respond to those who seemed to grow an expectation that we'd finish in the European places and to put in perspective that where we are relative to the available points remaining shows that a great season is still more than salvageable. 

But yeah, as I said above and we've both probably said a bunch of times over the past couple of months our quality - or lack thereof - in possession is endemic and needs fixing quickly if we're to avoid the season fading into a damp squib. We've still had good, intelligent performances against Arsenal and Leeds in the meantime but I don't think we've looked particularly good in possession since the first half against Burnley. Jack being out has seemingly killed our ability to create chances but the overall issue had still crept in even when he was fit and it applies across the whole team.

Our defence has been brilliant but it's noticeable that Mings has obviously been instructed to keep it more simple of late, and Konsa as good as he's been is quite underwhelming on the ball and it's reflected in his stats vs other CBs across the top 5 leagues. As well as that our midfield issues are more than well documented at this stage so the combination of those two aren't exactly conducive to being comfortable in possession.

It's a hard one to pin down though because as you say it's not as though it's always been the case, so we know the ability is there but through whatever reason or a combination of them through just a loss of form, teams working us out, covid implications etc it's fallen off a cliff as of late. I'm holding out some faith that this break will do us good though, it's a chance to get Jack and Cash back up to speed and just generally reset. It's certainly not beyond this team to approach Fulham as a fresh start and pick up not only a win but overall performance levels.

[DCJonah]

8 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Had he done it on a shoestring budget he would be lauded as manager of the season hands down.

The fact is that he has spent the most money than any other team/manager outside the top 4 in the last two seasons and he is still reliant on Jack Grealish is becoming a bit of a piss take to many of us.

You're a villa fan. You know why we had to spend a fortune last summer.

You sound like those fans saying villa are doing a Fulham. Why pretend you don't understand the circumstances just to have a moan. It's this kind of shit, that starts to look like an agenda. 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

Ok i'm gonna have a crack at trying to iron out some of the different opinions i see on here after games, especially poor performances / defeats. I know this is the Dean Smith Thread but this type of thing is going on in several posts above so hey ho!

I often see posters getting wound up by other posters reactions and indeed i get some posts aimed at me when i'm perhaps "venting" a little after a defeat or generally poor performance. 

There's clearly a bit of a mixed post game reaction by people on here and i think the trouble is after a defeat everyone to varying degrees is emotionally wound up/upset/frustrated or downright angry or worried by that particular days performance.

Some appear to instantly "go off" and angrily post about the performance / players (Guilty on occasion )

Some prefer to wait for those posters and then attack them for posting stuff like that, which in it's own right is likely because they too are wound up but they simply do not want to attack the players so instead attack other posters for attacking the players. 

Some just bide their time and avoid the chat until they have calmed down a day or two later which is probably the best option really although with not being able to attend games sometimes you just need to get your frustration out and where else is there? I guess if you have friends or others around you then you can have that post game analisys and discussion in person or on the phone but if you don't, venting on chat sites like this may be the only option.

For example as a fan of 45 years and home & away regular / season ticket holder for many of those years, AVFC means so much to me that if we play poorly, as we have been for a while now, i find it really annoying and being a little isolated over here in the East Mids my only real way of talking in out with other Villa Fans is on here. I can take defeats if we at least play ok and of course there will be the odd off day and form comes & goes. What i cannot deal with is when the players appear to lack concentration / focus persistently over a prolonged period. It drives me nuts as it feels as though they are disrespecting the shirt somehow. Being a fan for so long makes it very personal and having ventured all over the Uk and to places like Rotterdam and seen a great Villa team, i guess your standards get set a bit high and when those standards are not met personally i try to work out why and discuss it on here purely out of concern for the team.

Other Fans seem to take umbrance with this type of post however and have the approach that we should be grateful we are mid-table etc and that others have ridiculous expectations etc. Sometimes this very quickly results in all out attacks on or ridiculing of those posters who react in a different way to them!

So i think there is a lot of mis-understanding and mis-reading of posts (Texting afterall is always dangerous as it can be read in many different ways and is very easy to take the wrong way). 

The thing is Venting is merely a different way of reacting to a defeat and actually is prompted because this type of emotionally led fan truly cares about AVFC.  I can understand however why the other type of posters in the "support the players regardless" camp get annoyed by it. 

Really both approaches are just showing that we all care,  you just have differing personality types displaying it in different ways and i feel this is where a lot of "conflict" on here comes from. Maybe we could just have a bit more empathy for each others default emotional reaction immediately after a defeat? Don't immediately jump on other posters when emotions are running high?

It is different peronality types nothing more

We are all clearly fans and we all clearly care about the club on here, so peace brothers! 

Then again this is Villatalk 

Brilliant post and one well worth saying.

We are all Villa fans, and you are spot on, we have different personalities and subsequently wired differently.....No one is wrong, ungrateful or thick.

For my part, I am an analyst type always delving for the answers, that does not mean, I have a monopoly on the solutions, but by expressing my feelings on a game, some wiser owl, might help me see the error of their ways ( The players)...someone else always sees another angle, I am open to that, and welcome an alternative view to mine.

I get frustrated when a discussion on a game gets closed down, by some bod wanting to default back to the league table and brand us all as ungrateful for having the temerity, to analyse a game...right now we are all peed off with whats on display, but some don't want to hear it, others like me, want to get to the bottom of it and can be known to labour points ( not intentionally,I might add)...but I do like to answer posts and not dismiss them

We all see a game different, we all think we are right, because our eyes told us so, but the interpretation of what our eyes see is the relevant bit.....It tickles me when I hear " you must be watching a different game" errrrr No....but the interpretation is different....as an example if we all looked at the Mona Lisa, we would have 40,000 different opinions on it.

There is one ultimate unifying factor......We all Love the pants off the club......There really isn't any other like it, and thats a fact, not an opinion 

 

[thabucks]

He has kudos in the bank but that only stretches so far and for so long.

Once again i’m back where I was a year ago with Smith and I do not feel he is getting the best out of the players and struggles with a Plan B. His predictable 60th min winger sub and then Davis for the last 15-20 mins are tiresome and also worrying. All that said just think where we were and where we are now and for me that’s all that matters right now. It’s is when we start to regress or stagnate is when I’ll be calling for change ... 

 

or give it three games and if we lose them the fickle fan will no doubt come out of me calling for change. 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, thabucks said:

He has kudos in the bank but that only stretches so far and for so long.

Once again i’m back where I was a year ago with Smith and I do not feel he is getting the best out of the players and struggles with a Plan B. His predictable 60th min winger sub and then Davis for the last 15-20 mins are tiresome and also worrying. All that said just think where we were and where we are now and for me that’s all that matters right now. It’s is when we start to regress or stagnate is when I’ll be calling for change ... 

 

or give it three games and if we lose them the fickle fan will no doubt come out of me calling for change. 

He will sought it out, he usually does, it just takes a bit longer than the better managers......Right now, he doesn't have the diversity of squad personnel to change anything, he changes players, but doesn't change the game, because they are too similar.

He needs to do a Swot analysis, if he hasn't already and bring in players in the summer with alternative attributes.

We are too invested in Dean Now, he has to stay for the long term and reverse this dismal form...He is not a bad manager, just needs a better rounded squad.

[barry'sboots]

5 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

To compare us to Leicester is even more bizarre. They have had years and years of building a squad full of £20m plus players. Developing the players they buy. Being able to buy shit and replace it after a couple of years if they aren't good enough. They spent £31m on a 19 year old in the summer. We aren't there. We are a long way off that. If you're comparing us to Leicester now, then we may aswell give up now on Smith and any other manager we employ. Even with multiple injuries, they are better than us 

 

Not sure anybody is comparing us with Leicester?? They are clearly ahead of us at the minute, being an established top half PL team, although I would hope we can catch them up over the next few years.

They did spend ££'s on Fofana BUT they also brought in considerable funds with the sale of Chilwell and, prior to that, Maguire.  I suspect our net spend has been considerably ahead of theirs for the last couple of years. 

[Demitri_C]

7 hours ago, osmark86 said:

Trez isn't consistant no, but he helped us achieve a good spell in the beginning of the season and we're pretty thin on options in our squad as it is so it made sense to keep him around.

Excuses? you're comparing us to teams that have had more chances to shop around. Of course everything is in the realm of possibility, but to have some grounded expectations isn't exactly making excuses. If you think that our expectations are too low you have to be willing to accept that others might think that yours are too high.

I have never once said i expected europe - just that it was a veey good opportunity this year due to the poor state of other sides who usually do better.

I dont think expecting a good set piece a game or having a few shots on target a game isn't setting the bar too high!!

As for trez i have never rated the guy. Just a frustrating player that isnt good enough.  Definitely one that should be sold in the summer 

[Demitri_C]

6 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

Name a Turkish club that could afford the £8.5m plus fee that would've come with trez? I think I remember reading they wanted to loan him, absolutely no good for us.

If we got £8.5m for him, are we really going to be able to get better for £8.5m? 

All the players mentioned (benrahma the latest by you) cost £20m plus. We simply didn't have that to spend. This is neither the owner nor deans fault. It's simply FFP. 

Simply saying we can sell trez and bring another winger in is football manager type speak. It's easy on there, I play it. I sold trez to China for £17m. PERFECT. But it's not going to happen in the real world.

I just don't think it's a coincidence that those that think all this is easy are those that are complaining about Smith.

It's funny though, also, that despite those teams you mentioned being so bad. 1 is sat behind us, 1 is 1 point ahead of us having played a game more.

The other 2, only 1 side in the entire English game has managed to sit above them that you wouldn't expect to be there... But it's Deans fault for us not being there? I just can't get my head round it. 

To compare us to Leicester is even more bizarre. They have had years and years of building a squad full of £20m plus players. Developing the players they buy. Being able to buy shit and replace it after a couple of years if they aren't good enough. They spent £31m on a 19 year old in the summer. We aren't there. We are a long way off that. If you're comparing us to Leicester now, then we may aswell give up now on Smith and any other manager we employ. Even with multiple injuries, they are better than us 

 

You might as well ask me what the finances of Uruguays welfare budget is how would i know who could afford trez!!

We could ahve negotiated a loan deal like west ham did amd pay it next summer or juat not signed traore who has been very hit and miss.i do think traore is better than trez though. 

I dont agree with your point about fm talk and here is why. Saying you want to get rid of one player and replacing him with another is not a huge rebuild. If i was to say we need a keeper left back right back centre  back two right midfielders and two strikers thats fm talk not saying you wanna repkace trezuget so i disagree with your point there.

Its not bizarre. Leicester are better than us but they have relied without having vardy, half lf their defence and injuries to maddison. They just get on with it. Grealish gets injured and its the end of the world here.  We will never be a top team if we have this mentality and perform that way.

[osmark86]

19 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I have never once said i expected europe - just that it was a veey good opportunity this year due to the poor state of other sides who usually do better.

I dont think expecting a good set piece a game or having a few shots on target a game isn't setting the bar too high!!

As for trez i have never rated the guy. Just a frustrating player that isnt good enough.  Definitely one that should be sold in the summer 

Like all sides we have ups and downs. Good opportunity sure but looks like we're not good enough either which is a shame.

Hasn't that been the case for the majority of the season though? We've created plenty. We seem to be struggling for form right now but I'm sure we'll work it out as we've done before under DS.

Trez? Yes we should look to replace this summer, agreed.

[mykeyb]

5 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

If it was just questioning issues during a match then that's fine. Of course, the post you've quoted is quoting a post talking about how Fergie had calls for his head early into his reign...

I've seen multiple calls for the manager to be replaced in the last 36 hours.

This, for me, is mind blowing.

I have seen one poster and he has always questioned the manager at every opportunity.

I don't understand anyone with that viewpoint.

[Zatman]

39 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

You might as well ask me what the finances of Uruguays welfare budget is how would i know who could afford trez!!

We could ahve negotiated a loan deal like west ham did amd pay it next summer or juat not signed traore who has been very hit and miss.i do think traore is better than trez though. 

I dont agree with your point about fm talk and here is why. Saying you want to get rid of one player and replacing him with another is not a huge rebuild. If i was to say we need a keeper left back right back centre  back two right midfielders and two strikers thats fm talk not saying you wanna repkace trezuget so i disagree with your point there.

Its not bizarre. Leicester are better than us but they have relied without having vardy, half lf their defence and injuries to maddison. They just get on with it. Grealish gets injured and its the end of the world here.  We will never be a top team if we have this mentality and perform that way.

Leicester are miles ahead of us and arent even conparable. They were playing Champions League and in the same season we were signing McCormack and Hogan

They have big money and are in a different level to us

[osmark86]

Just now, Zatman said:

Leicester are miles ahead of us and arent even conparable. They were playing Champions League and in the same season we were signing McCormack and Hogan

They have big money and are in a different level to us

Honestly shouldn't have to be spelled out, but yes. This all day.

[Villan_of_oz]

5 hours ago, OxfordVillan said:

The comparison you make is a ridiculous example of whataboutery. It’s not an either/or scenario, they shouldn’t be doing either. If you don’t think that playing computer games into the small hours has an effect on young mens demeanour and performance the folllowing day then I’d suggest you know little about it. I see with my own eyes the effect it has on our 18yr old lad and his mates when they’ve been gaming for hours on end, more so when it’s into the small hours. Eyes like pandas and zombie like, seemingly unable to fully take in what’s happening around them. For many it’s an addiction. And these are lads who have nothing to worry about other than stacking shelves at Sainsbury’s the next day, or rocking up in van to a building site. We’re talking about young men who are PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES. Special mention again of the word PROFESSIONAL. They cannot live like my lad, they are different whether they like it or not. They are paid to live differently, to look after themselves physically and mentally. They are paid to be the best they can possibly be, to be far superior to the young men stacking shelves in Sainsbury’s after a long night of gaming, or being out on the pi55. But those young men either out on the pi55 or gaming still have to be at work at a time that suits their employer, not the other way round. Or they end up getting sacked. I’d love to hear Messi or Ronaldos thoughts on starting training later to accommodate younger players nighttime gaming habits, I think it’d make interesting reading.

Lack of paragraphs is ridiculous

[osmark86]

3 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Lack of paragraphs is ridiculous

Sure increases the tl;dr factor

[thabucks]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

We are too invested in Dean Now, he has to stay for the long term and reverse this dismal form...He is not a bad manager, just needs a better rounded squad.

I agree with your the majority of your post but the bold part. We have been building a structure so the next manager builds on the foundations built by Smith rather than rip it up and start again. It’s about the manager being in the image of the club not the other way around. 

Dean will reach a ceiling and will be replaced with someone better in due course. If that’s in a year to 18 months or longer who knows. I have no doubts though that NSWE will not be sentimental when decision time comes. £320 million and counting thus far investment into Villa only buys you a certain amount of leeway and margin for error. 

[VillanousOne]

We are very well organised defensively but what worries me is even when Grealish was fit, our midfield was always unbalanced and inconsistent.

A lot of teams didn't know how to play against us at the start of the season, the combination of Grealish and Watkins and to a lesser extent Traore and Barkley were causing defences problems and hard to predict.

Now teams know that if they nullify Watkins or Grealish, we are done in attack. Without Grealish we are painfully easy to defend against, go 3 on Watkins force him deep or wide and no one else steps up to offer any threat, no one gets in the box and no one can take set pieces. Even when Grealish was playing, teams were sticking 3 players on him and we were getting shut down (except Traore and El Ghazi briefly stepped up).

We have three midfielders all playing the same role which is 'not very good at anything' down the middle. We stick doggedly to 433 no matter how bad we play, over and over.

Dean isn't entirely to blame, the players have let him down big style, but people make out like we have a good 11 and the rest of our squad is pub team quality. I don't believe it for a second, there are plenty of teams who have worse squads than ours who aren't the level of shambles we currently are, we are beyond the 'it's just a blip' phase of excuses. It may well be that Covid decimated fitness and we have just been unlucky with injuries and just slowly lost confidence completely.

Whatever the case, Dean needs to arrest the slide and get us back firing again. I hope he does so and proves myself and the doubters wrong.

 

[Villan_of_oz]

10 minutes ago, osmark86 said:

Sure increases the tl;dr factor

You're right I never got past ridiculous in your post