foreveryoung Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 27 minutes ago, KMitch said: I didn't agree with the Young substitution, but I get the thought process behind it (having a veteran on the pitch vs throwing a 19 year old in Chucky or A. Ramsey in off the deep end). Buendia's substitution was a result of the red card, not because of his performance. Bailey's pace was valued over Buendia's passing when we were down a man. Who should he have taken off instead? A central midfielder? Bailey? No, Buendia was the logical choice. What fall out? More Twatter speculation... I'm not going to beat anyone over the head for that. Yeah, and Mings got the message. Was benched for poor performances, and looked much better when he came on after the red card. 4/5 losses - "Results-Oriented Thinking" at it's finest... We've also went on winning runs on Smith's watch over the past 3 seasons too. No twatter speculation. Ming's had a row with Sanson on the training pitch, Sanson is not ill. Also what are Covid issues? Ing's? Surely either got it or not! It's not all happy families behind closed doors believe me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMitch Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, thabucks said: My main gripe with Smith during these periods of poor results and pressure, is that we lose all identity form, shape and cohesion - 3 years in and do not have a back up plan, make quick decisive tactical changes often enough and we have no discernible identity - still. Ok, so... He did that... He started playing 532 as a backup formation for 4231/433 and we had a lot of success when we first pulled it out weeks back. I keep seeing this "no backup plan" or "poor tactics/subs" as an argument against Smith all the time, but I also don't see the biggest clubs/managers making sweeping changes to their systems game to game, let alone within the game itself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: No twatter speculation. Ming's had a row with Sanson on the training pitch, Sanson is not ill. Also what are Covid issues? Ing's? Surely either got it or not! It's not all happy families behind closed doors believe me. Ming's V Sanson - hard to pick a winner if those two squared up to each other 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) 59 minutes ago, KMitch said: Ok, so... He did that... He started playing 532 as a backup formation for 4231/433 and we had a lot of success when we first pulled it out weeks back. I keep seeing this "no backup plan" or "poor tactics/subs" as an argument against Smith all the time, but I also don't see the biggest clubs/managers making sweeping changes to their systems game to game, let alone within the game itself... It’s the nuanced in game changes- the difference between a Tuchel & Solskjaer. Our plan B is hoof ball Edited November 1, 2021 by thabucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 11 minutes ago, KMitch said: 3 seasons ago, we were mid table in the Championship, we've improved every single season under Smith until this summer when we lost Jack, which seemed to catch everyone off guard at Villa. We knew this season was going to be one of transition, and no matter how optimistic some were about our chances to challenge for Europe without Grealish were, it was always going to be a very tough ask. Our season's publicly stated goals in interviews with Smith are to improve on our finish from last season (11th) and get the team to play and win without Jack. We're 10 games into the season and we're missing on both those goals, but we've dealt with a COVID-caused shortened preseason and one of the worst injury crises of all time. That said, as poor as we've been, there are still 5 teams playing worse than us and Smith has proven he's been able to turn around poor runs of form before during his previous 3 seasons with us. It's too early to call for his head right now. No ones really calling for his head. Most people are calling for wins. we have turned it round before cause we had Grealish. I'm gonna be truthful here. I think it's pretty poor, a manager who has been here for 3 years and his experienced coaching staff cannot get a team with the talent we have, playing to a system that works and with more success after 10 games. It's a mess out there, Targett looks like when we first signed him, Ming's can't be bothered, midfield is inconsistent, an Watkin's even though getting a goal, strolls around with a face on him like someone has stolen his lollypop. Did you see the stats for tackling, speaks volumes about our work rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted November 1, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: Do you not see that as a problem Smith has? Why do we repeatedly need to get out of a horrible run of results. Rather than having a manage to get us out of these situations we need a manager that doesn't get us into them in the first place I see that as football. Even the best sides have bad patches, it's just normal, we are a long way off having the type of squad to compete with the best at the top end of the league so we're likely to have more bad patches than those sides. Hitting bad form is normal it's what you do about it that counts and up to now Smith has always sorted us out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, romavillan said: I see that as football. Even the best sides have bad patches, it's just normal, we are a long way off having the type of squad to compete with the best at the top end of the league so we're likely to have more bad patches than those sides. Hitting bad form is normal it's what you do about it that counts and up to now Smith has always sorted us out. Yeah but our bad patches last quite a long time, it is never just 4 or 5 games and we need to be able to get out of our bad patches much quicker than we have shown in the past if we want to get a top half finish Edited November 1, 2021 by Peter Griffin Fixed a typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 1, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 1, 2021 14 minutes ago, hippo said: Ming's V Sanson - hard to pick a winner if those two squared up to each other Sanson would pull a hamstring trying to square up to him 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, romavillan said: For my money you have to be bonkers to be wanting Smith out of the door. Really bad run but he'll work it out, it's not the first time he's needed to turn things round with us and so far he's always managed to do so. A month ago he was nominated for manager of the month wasn't he? He will get it right, hopefully the board will back him in Jan to strengthen up the middle of the park too, but regardless Smith is still the man for this particular job IMO. Yes he's got some problems to sort out but he's smart and he's always learning. There's been some outright abuse directed at him on here which is just mental. I don’t think anybody actually wants him to leave, they just feel that he has taken us as far as he can. You have to admit that he has been saved on more than one occasion by having one of the best players in the world (possibly) available to him. Now that has gone, we are starting to really struggle. The fact that figuring out our identity since that change happened has been such a struggle, tells me that he probably didn’t have the dressing room and the players completely on board and everything went through Jack. The last four games have produced some of the worst football I have seen, and for us to play like that having had the same manager for three years, is awful. Teams have bad runs of results, but playing like we have recently? No chance that it is just bad luck… There are many things going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about. And I think we are far from being rosey. For me, it’s starting at the top… Edited November 1, 2021 by Tayls 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
string28 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Tayls said: I don’t think anybody actually wants him to leave, they just feel that he has taken us as far as he can. You have to admit that he was been saved on more than one occasion by having one of the best players in the world (possibly) available to him. Now that has gone, we are starting to really struggle. The fact that figuring out our identity since that change happened has been such a struggle, tells me that he probably didn’t have the dressing room and the players completely on board and everything went through Jack. The last four games have produced some of the worst football I have seen, and for us to play like that having had the same manager for three years, is awful. Teams have bad runs of results, but playing like we have recently? No chance that it is just bad luck… There are many things going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about. And I think we are far from being rosey. For me, it’s starting at the top… I have to admit the last 4 games have been so bad. Dean just looks lost to me like something is missing. The problem is the games we should win are coming and lose them then i dont think any thing will save him even "credit in the bank" im sorry to say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasterpocket68 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 1 hour ago, KMitch said: That performance was poor, but West Ham's first two goals were statistical anomalies (XGs of 0.12 & 0.04 respectively). The soft red card didn't do us any favors, but there are a lot of positives to take from this performance: Smith stopped playing 532 He benched Mings for poor performances He started Bailey Ollie found the net again Buendia looked like a good player in his actual position (on the right in a 433) and got an assist (MOM for me) Red cards happen , we’re fortunate it wasn’t potentially 2 . Smith had to stop 5 3 2 simply wasn’t working - should have happened a game ago Bailey been injured had to start when fit Ollie finding the net is a positive but forced on him with the the Ings absence Buendia showed glimpse of a player - and clearly wasn’t happy when he got pulled by smith- storming down the tunnel Cash for me was clear MOM I want Smith to succeed but all your positives are weak from the game Sunday . We can agree the luck wasn’t with us but the shape of the team the tactics with and without the ball we’re appalling. The substitution I didn’t understand. The only period of sustained momentum and fight was when we went down to 10 men. That was another bad performance taking away the red card and poor ref decisions. Hope he turns this around but as many fans have pointed out the problems are really mounting and the demeanour of our players is a major concern. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: No ones really calling for his head. Most people are calling for wins. we have turned it round before cause we had Grealish. I'm gonna be truthful here. I think it's pretty poor, a manager who has been here for 3 years and his experienced coaching staff cannot get a team with the talent we have, playing to a system that works and with more success after 10 games. It's a mess out there, Targett looks like when we first signed him, Ming's can't be bothered, midfield is inconsistent, an Watkin's even though getting a goal, strolls around with a face on him like someone has stolen his lollypop. Did you see the stats for tackling, speaks volumes about our work rate. I agree, regardless of what anybody thinks of Smith, the attitude of some of the players this season has been v poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted November 1, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 1, 2021 26 minutes ago, Tayls said: I don’t think anybody actually wants him to leave, they just feel that he has taken us as far as he can. You have to admit that he has been saved on more than one occasion by having one of the best players in the world (possibly) available to him. Now that has gone, we are starting to really struggle. The fact that figuring out our identity since that change happened has been such a struggle, tells me that he probably didn’t have the dressing room and the players completely on board and everything went through Jack. The last four games have produced some of the worst football I have seen, and for us to play like that having had the same manager for three years, is awful. Teams have bad runs of results, but playing like we have recently? No chance that it is just bad luck… There are many things going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about. And I think we are far from being rosey. For me, it’s starting at the top… Didn't say it was bad luck but way over the top reactions by loads of people to the current run of form. Yep it's been bad, but my point is I think Smith is the right man to fix what's going wrong. I don't think he's lost the dressing room, as much as Jack leaving has been huge I think it's more down to finding the best eleven and the best way of playing. How many times this season have we had our best XI out? I think never for two games on the bounce, you could argue that the last game was close and that would be the first time they've played that shape with that line up and it's November! Give Dean time and we'll be back to playing good footy soon enough and picking up the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picicata Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 58 minutes ago, romavillan said: For my money you have to be bonkers to be wanting Smith out of the door. Really bad run but he'll work it out, it's not the first time he's needed to turn things round with us and so far he's always managed to do so. A month ago he was nominated for manager of the month wasn't he? He will get it right, hopefully the board will back him in Jan to strengthen up the middle of the park too, but regardless Smith is still the man for this particular job IMO. Yes he's got some problems to sort out but he's smart and he's always learning. There's been some outright abuse directed at him on here which is just mental. I'm usually quite a positive person when it comes to all things Villa. I have nothing but the highest respect for Dean and what he has achieved but something went on within the club this summer that has completely unsettled us. The obvious thing is Jack leaving but throw in the odd coach changes, the timings of those changes, the lack of preparation for the season, a regression to long ball hoof/ pathetic long throw tactics and it all adds up to something not right. I hope you're correct and come Friday Dean and the boys come out swinging and make many of us on here rethink but it does have a smell to it that I don't like. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 13 hours ago, regular_john said: Still the man for the job in my opinion. If we had won four on the spin, we wouldn't all be beside ourselves assuming we would challenge for the league and be playing CL football next year. I hope that we would take a realistic stance and not get carried away. The same should be true now. Yes, it sucks to lose four on the spin but that doesn't mean it should be panic stations. Smith has done a great job since the moment he walked in. He is undoubtedly the best manager we've had in more than a decade and has, in my opinion, earned some patience. Keep the faith. UTV. The commentator yesterday kept saying he had a lot of credit in the bank among Villa fans for what he's done, and casting my mind to this site and other social media I'm thinking to myself "does he really though?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 1 hour ago, romavillan said: Really bad run but he'll work it out, it's not the first time he's needed to turn things round with us and so far he's always managed to do so. To be fair Roma, He had Jack to fall back on. He hasn't got that now and so this is where the biggest challenge of his managerial career comes into play for many reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, Keyblade said: The commentator yesterday kept saying he had a lot of credit in the bank among Villa fans for what he's done, and casting my mind to this site and other social media I'm thinking to myself "does he really though?". I think a alot of that credit is slowly running out. A poor result on Friday night and he's definately in the red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Keyblade said: The commentator yesterday kept saying he had a lot of credit in the bank among Villa fans for what he's done, and casting my mind to this site and other social media I'm thinking to myself "does he really though?". I think he does to be fair. As i've said, pretty much every fan likes Dean Smith the man, and appreciate everything he has done. Everybody's ideal scenario would probably be that he comes blazing back. However, you put the sentiment aside and, if this was Steve Bruce or any other manager, what do you think the fans would be like right now? I would suggest, it's not " toxic " YET, because it's Dean Smith. He has certainly used up a large portion of this " credit " though and is probably down to a few shillings. Edited November 1, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Just now, AvfcRigo82 said: I think a alot of that credit is slowly running out. A poor result on Friday night and he's definately in the red. The only way he's in the red there is with some creative accounting, because no way does 5 bad results outweigh the rest of his credit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said: I think a alot of that credit is slowly running out. A poor result on Friday night and he's definately in the red. Its like going to the dogs and betting on a 5-3-2 tricast in every race in the hope that it will eventually click. You soon run out of credit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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