Dean Smith

[hippo]

2 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

the future/long term plan is one thing but we are playing arch rivals on Saturday.

Can anyone tell me how Deano picks up these group of players and gets them ready for a derby?

when you have so many underperforming utterly inept players from midfield to attack in a formation that is utterly useless with tactics too match?

Adomah, El Ghazi, Kodjia, Connor and to a lesser extent Whelan as at least he tries, week in week out are making a mockery of this great club.

And their dire form and attitude is infecting the whole squad.

Much as I want Green to be the answer I doubt he can come into a side this woeful and turn things round.

No one wants to give Jed another try, Thor has been rubbish when he's played, not sure if Carroll is fit, so who do you turn to? Doyle Hayles?

Give Ramsey a go? Actually play him in the Grealish role?

 

I think wba at home is a gift from god for smith to be honest.

its liklely to be an open game - end to end encounter ...we have our major striker fit, an in form gk & cb ...they have recently lost there star playmaker, and now there main goal getter.

we seem to do well against wba...i think its a dream fixture tbh.

[avfc1982am]

5 hours ago, screwdriver said:

The bloke isn't an aston villa manager in any description. Ron Saunders would be shaking his head. 

 

This is the sort of shit that does my box in!! The constant Saunders, Taylor bullshit. If either were still managing in todays era they would also struggle with the shit currently at the club. Footballers are built differently and football has massively moved on since 30-40 years ago. Not saying they couldn't improve us eventually but I believe they too would need to rip the squad apart in order to move us forward.

Yes....I agree there needs to be an improvement. And yes I feel a little disappointed in Smiths approach the last few games because I feel if he's not careful he will fall into the same safety first trap that has hindered several managers in recent years. Continuing the same strategies when things aren't working. However anyone who thought Smith would just land and then everything would be A Okay were just fooling themselves imo. There is a shitload of dead weight to move and be replaced in order to get where we need to be. Things will not happen over night. 

I certainly don't think he is the messiah or anything like that but I believe he deserves as much if not more support as any of our recent managers. He's got a far bigger job on his hands as he will more than likely not have the budget of previous managers. Most have had a whirl of crap to remove during their own tenures however short term thinking bringing in a ridiculous amount of aging high earners in the last couple of years has undoubtedly put us back 2-3 years. We've gone from old to young back to old on the verge of younger again. It's been not just a rollercoaster but a shitstorm of terrible decision making for 9 years. Lets give the bloke a fair crack to turn this around before completely writing him off. 

 

 

[Villarocker]

9 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

I see what your saying chap. But they seem to be being asked to play a certain way. Hutton seems to be back playing creative winger like the Bruce says, something that I have never seen work due to Hutton not being able to cross a ball.  

It has looked better out there,  but now even the gung ho attack has gone. You cannot disagree this is conservative football, where a draw will do!

I don't think he wants draws mate, I think we just end up with them! It's become obvious that the players are either too old or just not willing or good enough to play his way and, as a result, he's returned them to a way they are more comfortable with. However, I think he should have plugged on with his way and see where it took us. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

41 minutes ago, hippo said:

a unique post as I am not sure if its pro or anti smith ...I would say the cycle is a lot simpler 

1.Villa appoint poor manager

2.Somebody - put the word out that he is part of a plan, has a clear ethos and is working on an identity.

3.Results are poor - some say give him time as he is creating an identity - others scream for him to be replaced

4.He gets the sack due to poor results

1.Villa appoint poor manager.

 

 

 

I genuinely can't remember the last time this was ever said,

Aside from with the current set up.

[Reivax_Villa]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

But the teams DS builds leak goals and persistently finish mid table. ...Is that what we are waiting for ?

well unless you have a mystical ball sat in front of you, wait and see.

 

[mikeyp102]

3 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

His managerial skills are going to be tested and how do you get the best out of someone who potentially knows they won't be here next season.

I said in an earlier post some seem to think that a number of players were informed a number of weeks ago that they have no future here. I don't know who in their right mind would do that with pretty much half a season to go but then having done it, seen a drop off in form to then loan out a handful players who may be here next season and continue to play those who won't and apparently no longer care is very strange.

As a manager I guess he now just as to get into players heads and say they are in the shop window. I'd imagine Whelan and Hutton have no future but in fairness to them whilst the quality is lacking they will still put a shift in. There are others though like Adomah and Kodjia who don't seem to care.

I think it goes beyond just the players though. The whole way we approach games as changed. We no longer press high, we play with two sitting midfielders and our wide men no longer push onto the opposing teams fullback instead they are more concerned with tracking back. As I said Smith has gone from on the font foot attacking football with the emphasis on how we can hurt teams to now being concerned with what teams can do to us and it shows in how we set up.

Yep the bolded bit is the most disconcerting for me. I just don’t understand how the performances have altered so much. I get that Grealish is missing and I get that some players haven’t a future here, but that still doesn’t excuse the drop off. If the players not here past the summer aren’t performing why did he let all the youth out on loan? Smith could’ve played them. They would’ve at least fought for the shirts more as it’s their career on the line. 

[Dave-R]

15 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Then Smith isn't the man for us if he can't adjust to a formula change. I can't believe his number two tactically beat him with ease yesterday. 

Was expecting to see some interesting play to expose some of brentfords weaknesses as he knows them all inside out. He exposed  nothing. 

Very very disappointed in him. He won't last long next year with garbage like this. 

While I do agree we got tactically fooled before the game got going. I felt we were rock solid for 90 mins defensively and that's with what we have available from Bruce's boys and a couple of new lads. To me while we got had before match begins, we matched everything brentford threw at us now to me that's a step forward in the defending department and maybe that's what Smith is aiming for.

We have to remember until Smith can get his own team and who he wants, there is going to be experimentation on builds. That's ok as I'm prepared for next season with Smith at the helm as we will see many leave and many come in. If anything its an exciting time and could be a big revival of villa, we will see.

[hippo]

8 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I genuinely can't remember the last time this was ever said,

Aside from with the current set up.

seriously ????? 

Houllier said it almost every week ...as did Tom Fox 

 

[romavillan]

8 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

Yep the bolded bit is the most disconcerting for me. I just don’t understand how the performances have altered so much. I get that Grealish is missing and I get that some players haven’t a future here, but that still doesn’t excuse the drop off. If the players not here past the summer aren’t performing why did he let all the youth out on loan? Smith could’ve played them. They would’ve at least fought for the shirts more as it’s their career on the line. 

He's changed ti because we were getting battered and everyone was concerned about shipping so many goals, the worrying thing is it's not Smith's game. So if the people on his back have their way he'll be gone before he's had a proper chance to play his game with a squad that can do it (even after a few injuries). The idea with the youth was clearly to get them playing competitive football and get them back in teh summer better players for it. I think they overestimated the motivation and performance levels of the senior pros who will be gone in the summer quite badly though. Blame lies there for me, not with Smith. 

[mikeyp102]

10 minutes ago, romavillan said:

He's changed ti because we were getting battered and everyone was concerned about shipping so many goals, the worrying thing is it's not Smith's game. So if the people on his back have their way he'll be gone before he's had a proper chance to play his game with a squad that can do it (even after a few injuries). The idea with the youth was clearly to get them playing competitive football and get them back in teh summer better players for it. I think they overestimated the motivation and performance levels of the senior pros who will be gone in the summer quite badly though. Blame lies there for me, not with Smith. 

We were conceding goals yes, but definitely not getting battered. We were outscoring teams in the main. We certainly get more wins than we are now. That is Dean Smiths game, that’s what he’s done at previous clubs, it was even mentioned that was one of the reasons we got him, to play entertaining football. This is just painful to watch. 

As for the kids, I agree they needed game time, and if the senior were playing well when he sent them out great. But we had already started playing badly and so they could’ve got game time here.

[Raver50032]

13 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Joleon lescott was one of us, as was Micha Richards, go back further and Collymore and Hendrie were allegedly one of us, Gabby too, the list could go on. 

Not one of them did anything but disappoint ultimately, who was the last 'one of us' who actually achieved anything? 

It's ironic that the one who truly is  'one of us' is doing very well, at another club (Lolley). 

Brian Little and Ian Taylor most probably... though Little probably wasn't a Holte Ender considering he's from the north east. But he was here from a very young age and seems to have Villa most closely at his heart.

For all the 'what aboutism' of others you list, the fact remains, Smith has been here less than five months and people are already wetting their nappies. It isn't perfect right now, far from it. I'm not happy... and I don't know what the answer is. Pretty sure it isn't throwing Smith under a bus in less than 5 months though. We can't run a football club like that. Not with any aspiration of sustainment and ambition. There's already been mention elsewhere of 'cabbages.' Come on, VT is better than this surely? It's not often we have somebody that has the club so dearly at his heart managing us. Smith might make it, he might not. Not aimed at you, but I'm done with the discussion in this thread as it's pretty clear it is going right down the same road as the Bruce thread... already. Bonkers.

On the subject of Joe Lolley, I have seen loose paper talk that we will be in for him in the summer. That's nice... but if MON rates him, I can't see Lolley coming here unless he's out of contract or he kicks up a stink - and, stink kickers aren't what we want here.

[Demitri_C]

8 hours ago, Dave-R said:

While I do agree we got tactically fooled before the game got going. I felt we were rock solid for 90 mins defensively and that's with what we have available from Bruce's boys and a couple of new lads. To me while we got had before match begins, we matched everything brentford threw at us now to me that's a step forward in the defending department and maybe that's what Smith is aiming for.

We have to remember until Smith can get his own team and who he wants, there is going to be experimentation on builds. That's ok as I'm prepared for next season with Smith at the helm as we will see many leave and many come in. If anything its an exciting time and could be a big revival of villa, we will see.

Defensively we were OK but in my opinion we didn't match them tactically at all. We struggled. How many attacks broke down? How many attempts did we actually have on target. I notice we are struggling to play Bls through the middle so we having to rely on attacking form the wings. The problem with that is El ghazi and adomah have been pretty hopeless for a while now(more adomah) 

Also I'm not sure why we signed dcarroll and not fer. He has just got ove r a big injury like fer and hasn't been in the squad? Fer would have been such a better signing 

[romavillan]

13 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

We were conceding goals yes, but definitely not getting battered. We were outscoring teams in the main. We certainly get more wins than we are now. That is Dean Smiths game, that’s what he’s done at previous clubs, it was even mentioned that was one of the reasons we got him, to play entertaining football. This is just painful to watch. 

As for the kids, I agree they needed game time, and if the senior were playing well when he sent them out great. But we had already started playing badly and so they could’ve got game time here.

Yeah I'm agreeing, I think the fear was getting battered, shipping goals, starting games after giving the opposition a two goal start etc. I think we should go back to it but there's definitely a sense now that he wants to concentrate on shutting teams out better and then go on from there. If we had a better midfield that we could keep compact and wait for the mistake and be sure we could find the right pass to exploit it then I wouldn't be against playing tight and countering but I don't think we're capable of that either really, at least not without Grealish. 

So yep I'm all for going back to what we were trying to do at the start, regardless of results, I think the pressure to be safety first is coming from those who are already calling for his head after a poor run of results. It's a vicious circle and one we need to break, if the top brass come out and say whatever happens you're here next year and you and Pitarch can build a team to play how you want to play so it's all clear and the pressure comes off then I think that might be one way out of it.

As for the u23s, we could have played them and had a poor run and it would have been on their shoulders instead of the old guard who will be gone in the summer anyway. Or they might have played better than the shit we've been watching of late. Big gamble though, wouldn't want to shatter them with 30k booing them every week when they coudl get confidence and competitive football out of the spotlight somewhere else and be better players for it in the summer. Not sure where I stand on that one but not easy choices.
 

[LakotaDakota]

24 minutes ago, Raver50032 said:

On the subject of Joe Lolley, I have seen loose paper talk that we will be in for him in the summer. That's nice... but if MON rates him, I can't see Lolley coming here unless he's out of contract or he kicks up a stink - and, stink kickers aren't what we want here.

He signed a new 4 1/2 year deal last week so given the season he has had he will cost rather a lot

[Brentfordnylons]

Dean Smith doesn’t seem to be able to improve the players he inherited and his additions last month don’t seem to be having much effect something that has surprised me.I thought he would have got Hogan back to his best instead he seams to have given up on him.He looked a man under pressure after the game and unlike him he defended himself with some pretty lame excuses that done him no favours.During his time at Brentford he coached a squad that was mostly made up of young players that were recruited by the DoFs from abroad or from Div1 /2.None of the squad have played previously in the championship or PL.This set up was one of the reasons Warburton left us as he wanted control over transfers (where is he these days)but Dean was very comfortable with it and worked along with the other coaches at improving potential talent and then cashing in on a couple of sales every year to keep the club within FFP and us finish in the  top half every season is seen as success by most fans.This is a complete contrast to his job at Villa and I’m not sure if Dean is going to be allowed  to build his own team or your DOF will get the players in that will need to be of a higher quality and price that he’s been used to if he is going to get you promoted.Word of warning not all our players move on to become super stars look at Hogan and Ryan Woods at Stoke who’s struggling to get a game these days as I’m pretty sure he will bid for some of our players.I hope Dean is successful and gets you promoted and is given time to make it happen. 

 

[hippo]

9 hours ago, Reivax_Villa said:

well unless you have a mystical ball sat in front of you, wait and see.

 

Or look at our goals against column 

[hippo]

15 minutes ago, Brentfordnylons said:

Dean Smith doesn’t seem to be able to improve the players he inherited and his additions last month don’t seem to be having much effect something that has surprised me.I thought he would have got Hogan back to his best instead he seams to have given up on him.He looked a man under pressure after the game and unlike him he defended himself with some pretty lame excuses that done him no favours.During his time at Brentford he coached a squad that was mostly made up of young players that were recruited by the DoFs from abroad or from Div1 /2.None of the squad have played previously in the championship or PL.This set up was one of the reasons Warburton left us as he wanted control over transfers (where is he these days)but Dean was very comfortable with it and worked along with the other coaches at improving potential talent and then cashing in on a couple of sales every year to keep the club within FFP and us finish in the  top half every season is seen as success by most fans.This is a complete contrast to his job at Villa and I’m not sure if Dean is going to be allowed  to build his own team or your DOF will get the players in that will need to be of a higher quality and price that he’s been used to if he is going to get you promoted.Word of warning not all our players move on to become super stars look at Hogan and Ryan Woods at Stoke who’s struggling to get a game these days as I’m pretty sure he will bid for some of our players.I hope Dean is successful and gets you promoted and is given time to make it happen. 

 

This sought of disarms the "Smith had money argument" - Whilst they didn't shell out for big players, they had Mepham last season - who was since sold for £12m - yet the defence haemorrhaged goals all last season.  It could be that Smith was working with a better set of players at Brentford  than it first appears. 

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, Raver50032 said:

Brian Little and Ian Taylor most probably... though Little probably wasn't a Holte Ender considering he's from the north east. But he was here from a very young age and seems to have Villa most closely at his heart.

For all the 'what aboutism' of others you list, the fact remains, Smith has been here less than five months and people are already wetting their nappies. It isn't perfect right now, far from it. I'm not happy... and I don't know what the answer is. Pretty sure it isn't throwing Smith under a bus in less than 5 months though. We can't run a football club like that. Not with any aspiration of sustainment and ambition. There's already been mention elsewhere of 'cabbages.' Come on, VT is better than this surely? It's not often we have somebody that has the club so dearly at his heart managing us. Smith might make it, he might not. Not aimed at you, but I'm done with the discussion in this thread as it's pretty clear it is going right down the same road as the Bruce thread... already. Bonkers.

On the subject of Joe Lolley, I have seen loose paper talk that we will be in for him in the summer. That's nice... but if MON rates him, I can't see Lolley coming here unless he's out of contract or he kicks up a stink - and, stink kickers aren't what we want here.

Well he's just signed a new 5 year contract last week so I'd be somewhat surprised if we signed Lolley any time in the near future.

Good shout on Tayls, but I think that highlights how little success we've had in bringing in/through 'our own'.

You could argue it's not healthy to be too emotionally invested in a professional responsibility, you could argue differently too of course.

 

 

Edit - also, I think we share the same name judging by your PSN username  on that - I have a cousin that I haven't really seen since a being a young child who shared the exact same name as me.......could you be my long lost cousin?!

Edited February 15, 2019 by bannedfromHandV

[Brentfordnylons]

Brentford went on a 10 match unbeaten run after Mepham came off injured back in December and never played for us again.Thomas Frank had changed to playing 3 central defenders that coincided with that run.Would have thought JT would have had a positive impact on your defence but doesn’t seem to have happened.

[Dave-R]

56 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Defensively we were OK but in my opinion we didn't match them tactically at all. We struggled. How many attacks broke down? How many attempts did we actually have on target. I notice we are struggling to play Bls through the middle so we having to rely on attacking form the wings. The problem with that is El ghazi and adomah have been pretty hopeless for a while now(more adomah) 

Also I'm not sure why we signed dcarroll and not fer. He has just got ove r a big injury like fer and hasn't been in the squad? Fer would have been such a better signing 

I agree the wings have been a big problem, we just don't have those players who can cause problems, be effective through out a game. Those wings are something that really needs to be addressed im the summer.

Yes I wonder why we signed Carroll, maybe they picked up on something we do not know between the two players.

What ever happened to buying someone straight from a first team, who's in form and can do the job.