sharkyvilla Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Yeah that's why I asked the question Roma as you correctly state it would be a bit of an unfair comparison otherwise. I was thinking just this season, but Tammy not joining from the start is a decent point. Still interested to find out (not interested enough to look for myself though ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 2 hours ago, TRO said: The problem being, is ...the job that's been done and the results of it are not always in parallel. He could be working hard behind the scenes, but the work is not being transformed on to the pitch. Its a bit like a prospector selling cars.....The work goes in the contacts being made is commendable, but no sales.....then a few months down the line the hard work kicks in and Bingo, all looks rosey. It could be that. but it probably isnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, romavillan said: Smith never had Snodgrass, Terry in defence etc.... This season is a fair comparison, same squad. Bruce didn't have a keeper that wasn't made of butter, didn't have abraham for the first 5 games (although bizarrely our results actually got worse when he signed, we won 2 drew 3 of the first 5, once tammy signed we only won 1 in the following 6 and lost 2 of those games). Comparisons are pointless really, There are just too many variables with line-up changes & injuries etc, Elmo was scoring goals for fun and getting assists at the start & has now been dropped. Summer signings have had longer to bed in rather than immediately playing with unknowns etc We have had 2 managers this season, The only real comparison is that they have both been spectacularly shit at winning games. Edited February 15, 2019 by LakotaDakota 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 57 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: Anyone able to compare Bruce and Smith's results for games that Grealish and Tuanzebe were available for? Not too sure if there's any point in this as I don't think it's comparable - too many other variables involved, and any subset of stats can (and will) be twisted to suit the poster's POV. But for what it's worth - games this season with both Grealish and Tuanzebe in the match squad: Steve Bruce WDDDLDWLDD (WWDDDLLDWLDD incl cups) - 20 % win rate, 1.2 ppg, 25% win rate if you include the two cup games. Dean Smith WLLWWWDWD (no cup games) - 55.6% win rate, 1.89 ppg. Possibly ammo to all and sundry in those stats, even without me comparing their games without both Grealish and Tuanzebe available in the match squad this season - as Bruce's 100% win rate in one single game just cannot be improved upon. Lies, damned lies and statistics... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 41 minutes ago, romavillan said: Smith never had Snodgrass, Terry in defence etc.... This season is a fair comparison, same squad. Smith would finish mid table with last season's team... i'm pretty certain of that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 24 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: I was thinking just this season, but Tammy not joining from the start is a decent point. Still interested to find out (not interested enough to look for myself though ). True, like @sne stated, it's Friday night and I can't be arsed looking either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, TB said: Not too sure if there's any point in this as I don't think it's comparable - too many other variables involved, and any subset of stats can (and will) be twisted to suit the poster's POV. But for what it's worth - games this season with both Grealish and Tuanzebe in the match squad: Steve Bruce WDDDLDWLDD (WWDDDLLDWLDD incl cups) - 20 % win rate, 1.2 ppg, 25% win rate if you include the two cup games. Dean Smith WLLWWWDWD (no cup games) - 55.6% win rate, 1.89 ppg. Possibly ammo to all and sundry in those stats, even without me comparing their games without both Grealish and Tuanzebe available in the match squad this season - as Bruce's 100% win rate in one single game just cannot be improved upon. Lies, damned lies and statistics... Thanks, that's quite a stark difference even with certain factors taken into consideration. It'll be interesting to see what happens when they are back from injury, as Smith's job probably relies on getting somewhere back to those stats in order to be given the rebuilding job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Smith would finish mid table with last season's team... i'm pretty certain of that. Smith would finish top 6 at least with last season's team provided he had a pre-season... I'm pretty certain of that. It still was a Steve Bruce team, but it was a much better and balanced Steve Bruce team. And I'm pretty certain that he'd make a much better fist of it in a playoff final. See? It's easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted February 15, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, sharkyvilla said: Anyone able to compare Bruce and Smith's results for games that Grealish and Tuanzebe were available for? God this was tedious, I think this is correct.... Bruce With Jack playing - 3 wins, 6 draws, 2 defeats No games without Jack With Axel playing - 1 win, 6 draws, 1 defeat Without Axel - 2 wins, 1 defeat (Axel on the bench twice and I assume hadn’t arrived for the first game of the season) With both playing - 1 win, 6 draws, 1 defeat Without both - n/a Smith With Jack playing - 5 wins, 2 draws, 2 defeats Without Jack - 2 wins, 6 draws, 3 defeats With Axel playing - 5 wins, 3 draws, 2 defeats Without Axel - 2 wins, 5 draws, 3 defeats With both playing - 5 wins, 2 draws, 2 defeats Without both - 2 wins, 5 draws, 3 defeats Having established the results and taking everything into consideration I’ve concluded Smith needs Jack and Axel slightly less than I need a girlfriend. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwdriver Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Smith wouldn't have qualified for the play offs. remember we were without Grealish a lot of last season ...his favorite excuse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 But the big question surely must be what color shorts were we wearing during these fixtures? White, claret or blue. Cant really make any comparison before we know this IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted February 15, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, screwdriver said: Smith wouldn't have qualified for the play offs. remember we were without Grealish a lot of last season ...his favorite excuse. Smith’s favourite excuse is that we were missing Jack a lot last season? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: Thanks, that's quite a stark difference even with certain factors taken into consideration. It'll be interesting to see what happens when they are back from injury, as Smith's job probably relies on getting somewhere back to those stats in order to be given the rebuilding job. I don't think he will need to get back to anywhere near those stats, if those in charge of the club really are in for the long term haul and want to stake out a new path for the future. They've seen what he can do with his best players available, so a decent uplift in form and playing style shold do it. And hopefully they'll bring in more players in the summer that will fit in. If (or when) he fails, I hope the club has the nous to bring in another coach that is able to develop the existing squad and not do a 180 degree turn in tactics and playing philosophy. IMO, that's what ruined Villa over the past decade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said: God this was tedious, I think this is correct.... Bruce With Jack playing - 3 wins, 6 draws, 2 defeats No games without Jack With Axel playing - 1 win, 6 draws, 1 defeat Without Axel - 2 wins, 1 defeat (Axel on the bench twice and I assume hadn’t arrived for the first game of the season) With both playing - 1 win, 6 draws, 1 defeat Without both - n/a Smith With Jack playing - 5 wins, 2 draws, 2 defeats Without Jack - 2 wins, 6 draws, 3 defeats With Axel playing - 5 wins, 3 draws, 2 defeats Without Axel - 2 wins, 5 draws, 3 defeats With both playing - 5 wins, 2 draws, 2 defeats Without both - 2 wins, 5 draws, 3 defeats Having established the results and taking everything into consideration I’ve concluded Smith needs Jack and Axel slightly less than I need a girlfriend. I wanted to give you a thank you and laughing smiley thing for that. I'm pretty sure that I'd rather have Smith in charge of a team with Jack and Axel in it than I would Bruce. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwdriver Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said: Smith’s favourite excuse is that we were missing Jack a lot last season? everytime we lose or draw to a shit team he says "remember we are without jack" well Brucio didn't have him for ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted February 15, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just now, screwdriver said: everytime we lose or draw to a shit team he says "remember we are without jack" well Brucio didn't have him for ages. And Brucio never mentioned it I presume? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, screwdriver said: everytime we lose or draw to a shit team he says "remember we are without jack" well Brucio didn't have him for ages. I'd say Bruce had a far more balanced squad last season, possibly hindered by the manager's defensive mindset, but still able to grind out draws and wins (usually by individual skill). Isn't it reasonable to suggest that a more attack-oriented coach would miss one of the most talented talented/creative players in the squad more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Merson08 said: Seriously. Bruce's win percentage is exactly 25%. 3 wins from 12 games. Are we throwing darts to get the win %? 4 wins from 13 games. Wins: Hull 3-1 Wigan 3-2 Yeovil 1-0 Rotherham 2-0 Matches played: Hull; Wigan; Yeovil; Ipswich; Brentford; Reading; Burton; Sheff U; Blackburn; Rotherham; Sheff W; Bristol C; Preston. 13 matches. You can either do 3 wins from 11 league matches as @snedid or 4 wins from all 13 matches but 3 from 12 is distorting statistics. Steve Bruce was sacked because he wasn’t doing well enough. And quite right too. Can’t understand why some people are cherry picking statistics to try to prove his performance was even worse than in reality. Could it be because his successor is barely doing any better? Edited February 15, 2019 by briny_ear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted February 15, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15, 2019 24 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: I wanted to give you a thank you and laughing smiley thing for that. I'm pretty sure that I'd rather have Smith in charge of a team with Jack and Axel in it than I would Bruce. Yeah I think so. I don’t put the collapse completely down to those two being out, although it does appear to be a big factor. Especially when you consider the quality of the opposition was probably on the whole harder when they were available. Not sure how much of a defence of Smith it is though that we appear to be so reliant on these players, Jack in particular. I can see his detractors using it to suggest a certain limitation in Smith’s game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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