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Until we sign another capable centre mid he should and will start every match.

The same collapse we saw around December-Feb last season will happen again immediately if he's replaced with Hourihane. Luckily that won't happen.

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19 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Until we sign another capable centre mid he should and will start every match.

The same collapse we saw around December-Feb last season will happen again immediately if he's replaced with Hourihane. Luckily that won't happen.

We aren't saying he shouldn't play most games. We are saying he shouldn't play every game. Surely you can see that a 100% mcginn for 5 out of 6 games than a 60% mcginn for every game. 

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7 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

We aren't saying he shouldn't play most games. We are saying he shouldn't play every game. Surely you can see that a 100% mcginn for 5 out of 6 games than a 60% mcginn for every game. 

I think that's a good idea yes.

There's just no one who can play there who's not a huge step down. Not that Smith would care but there would be plenty of criticism if he drops him and we put in a stinker losing to a side like Newcastle.

He needs to sort himself out he really does. Looks so out of shape. A new signing and being dropped just before Euros might give him a kick up the arse (though who would come off better there I don't know). I think he'll sort it out soon.

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I don't really get our midfield, we have Barkley who plays as an attacking midfielder, John McGinn who plays as a slightly less forward attacking midfielder than Barkely and Douglas Luiz who plays as a slightly less attacking midfielder than McGinn.

None of them play well defensively. 

The only player we have who is even close to defensive midfielder is Nakamba, not saying he is a better midfielder than any of the above but he does that job better.

I personally think McGinn can play well as defensive midfielder, but since he scored against Man Utd Smith refuses to drop him even if 40% fit, or play him as anything other than whatever attacking 'ish' role he is playing at the moment, which is hard to label as he doesn't really seem to do a lot other than getting fouled or losing the ball.

A fit, sharp and on point John McGinn is awesome, but it's rarer than a Bjorn Engels man of the match performance.

 

Edited by VillanousOne
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1 hour ago, VillanousOne said:

I don't really get our midfield, we have Barkley who plays as an attacking midfielder, John McGinn who plays as a slightly less forward attacking midfielder than Barkely and Douglas Luiz who plays as a slightly less attacking midfielder than McGinn.

None of them play well defensively. 

The only player we have who is even close to defensive midfielder is Nakamba, not saying he is a better midfielder than any of the above but he does that job better.

I personally think McGinn can play well as defensive midfielder, but since he scored against Man Utd Smith refuses to drop him even if 40% fit, or play him as anything other than whatever attacking 'ish' role he is playing at the moment, which is hard to label as he doesn't really seem to do a lot other than getting fouled or losing the ball.

A fit, sharp and on point John McGinn is awesome, but it's rarer than a Bjorn Engels man of the match performance.

 

You mean Spurs or Arsenal right? He never scored against United.

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11 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

I don't really get our midfield, we have Barkley who plays as an attacking midfielder, John McGinn who plays as a slightly less forward attacking midfielder than Barkely and Douglas Luiz who plays as a slightly less attacking midfielder than McGinn.

None of them play well defensively. 

The only player we have who is even close to defensive midfielder is Nakamba, not saying he is a better midfielder than any of the above but he does that job better.

I personally think McGinn can play well as defensive midfielder, but since he scored against Man Utd Smith refuses to drop him even if 40% fit, or play him as anything other than whatever attacking 'ish' role he is playing at the moment, which is hard to label as he doesn't really seem to do a lot other than getting fouled or losing the ball.

A fit, sharp and on point John McGinn is awesome, but it's rarer than a Bjorn Engels man of the match performance.

 

McGinn played as the link between Luiz and Barkley. Receiving the ball just inside our half and starting attacks with the space he was afforded on the turn.  When he moved further forward and Conor was given that role in the last game, it meant he was totally ineffective. McGinn didn't do the closing down he did in his pervious role (neither did Conor),  and he didn't get any space on the ball being further up the pitch.  He needs to be played as the deep lying playmaker,  or he's largely wasted.... primarily because the only other player we have who can play that role is Luiz, but he's being used as a DM at the moment.

Grealish, McGinn, Luiz is the midfield 3 we need to play at the moment.  Traore Trez and AEG fighting it out for the wing spots.  If we need a more defensive line up Nakamba is the only option to replace Luiz. This is also the only option we have to rest McGinn, moving Luiz into his role and Nakamba taking over Luiz's role, but it would be significantly worse.

Any other midfield 3 is going to get exposed and overrun,  and we'd need a lot of luck for it to work out (although Ramsey had looked pretty decent in his cameos so far and might be an option)

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12 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

I don't really get our midfield, we have Barkley who plays as an attacking midfielder, John McGinn who plays as a slightly less forward attacking midfielder than Barkely and Douglas Luiz who plays as a slightly less attacking midfielder than McGinn.

None of them play well defensively. 

The only player we have who is even close to defensive midfielder is Nakamba, not saying he is a better midfielder than any of the above but he does that job better.

I personally think McGinn can play well as defensive midfielder, but since he scored against Man Utd Smith refuses to drop him even if 40% fit, or play him as anything other than whatever attacking 'ish' role he is playing at the moment, which is hard to label as he doesn't really seem to do a lot other than getting fouled or losing the ball.

A fit, sharp and on point John McGinn is awesome, but it's rarer than a Bjorn Engels man of the match performance.

 

Or just a Bjorn Engels appearance.

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5 hours ago, MrBlack said:

McGinn played as the link between Luiz and Barkley. Receiving the ball just inside our half and starting attacks with the space he was afforded on the turn.  When he moved further forward and Conor was given that role in the last game, it meant he was totally ineffective. McGinn didn't do the closing down he did in his pervious role (neither did Conor),  and he didn't get any space on the ball being further up the pitch.  He needs to be played as the deep lying playmaker,  or he's largely wasted.... primarily because the only other player we have who can play that role is Luiz, but he's being used as a DM at the moment.

Grealish, McGinn, Luiz is the midfield 3 we need to play at the moment.  Traore Trez and AEG fighting it out for the wing spots.  If we need a more defensive line up Nakamba is the only option to replace Luiz. This is also the only option we have to rest McGinn, moving Luiz into his role and Nakamba taking over Luiz's role, but it would be significantly worse.

Any other midfield 3 is going to get exposed and overrun,  and we'd need a lot of luck for it to work out (although Ramsey had looked pretty decent in his cameos so far and might be an option)

but it's not Grealish, McGinn, Luiz you are missing out Barkley who is also a midfielder and that is the point I am making. Grealish, Ollie and Trez don't really come into this other than Grealish and Trez are expected to track back and provide cover for Targett and Cash.

Luiz, McGinn, Barkley is even more attacking than Luiz, McGinn and Connor as Barkley doesn't track back at all.

I would rather we didn't play Nakamba in place of Luiz or McGinn, IF we continue to concede comedy goals week in week out, it soon stops becoming 'freak results' and being pooned by VAR, so then Dean needs to try something different. Or I hope Dean signs a defensive midfielder in Jan who can do that role better than McGinn or Luiz (or Nakamba) allowing us to occasionally rotate the midfield.

 

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He's been a lot better than last year for me. Even when not 100% firing, he's been sitting deeper and starting attacks whereas last season he was hanging around in the penalty box trying to score and barely touched the ball.

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4 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

but it's not Grealish, McGinn, Luiz you are missing out Barkley who is also a midfielder and that is the point I am making. Grealish, Ollie and Trez don't really come into this other than Grealish and Trez are expected to track back and provide cover for Targett and Cash.

Luiz, McGinn, Barkley is even more attacking than Luiz, McGinn and Connor as Barkley doesn't track back at all.

I would rather we didn't play Nakamba in place of Luiz or McGinn, IF we continue to concede comedy goals week in week out, it soon stops becoming 'freak results' and being pooned by VAR, so then Dean needs to try something different. Or I hope Dean signs a defensive midfielder in Jan who can do that role better than McGinn or Luiz (or Nakamba) allowing us to occasionally rotate the midfield.

 

I agree we need a proper DM, and was hoping we would get one in the summer, but would be my priority in Jan.  I was talking about the interim situation where we are without Barkley. 

Once he's back,  we have shown that the midfield 3 with him further forward  and McGinn playing the role that Conor played works. Yes, it is morr offensive, but it still works better defensively than luiz conor mcginn.

Ideally, you are right. A proper DM. A rotational choice between McGinn and Luiz, and Barkley furthest forward is ideal. And inevitably when Ross is next injured they'd all get game time anyway 

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On 02/12/2020 at 23:15, Keyblade said:

You mean Spurs or Arsenal right? He never scored against United.

damn, yes think it was against Spurs. It was a Striker's goal and just shows what he is capable of, just something we don't see very often anymore.

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On 02/12/2020 at 22:05, VillanousOne said:

I don't really get our midfield, we have Barkley who plays as an attacking midfielder, John McGinn who plays as a slightly less forward attacking midfielder than Barkely and Douglas Luiz who plays as a slightly less attacking midfielder than McGinn.

None of them play well defensively. 

The only player we have who is even close to defensive midfielder is Nakamba, not saying he is a better midfielder than any of the above but he does that job better.

I personally think McGinn can play well as defensive midfielder, but since he scored against Man Utd Smith refuses to drop him even if 40% fit, or play him as anything other than whatever attacking 'ish' role he is playing at the moment, which is hard to label as he doesn't really seem to do a lot other than getting fouled or losing the ball.

A fit, sharp and on point John McGinn is awesome, but it's rarer than a Bjorn Engels man of the match performance.

 

Its like Robin Hood hitting the bulls eye.

spot on.

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To get a certain 2 further goals Villa need to get Stephen and Paul McGinn. lol.

All three McGinn brothers scored for St Mirren and with Stephens goal for Hibs today , all three have now scored for us. 🤣 🤣🤣

 

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On 02/12/2020 at 00:46, Tomaszk said:

Until we sign another capable centre mid he should and will start every match.

The same collapse we saw around December-Feb last season will happen again immediately if he's replaced with Hourihane. Luckily that won't happen.

I love McGinn aswell but I get the feeling now he'll become pretty vulnerable if we have ambitions of finishing in top 8 in near future. Can still be a good squad player.

Out of interest what would you do to change the home losing run. Taking McGinn out and putting a more defensive minded player next to Doug might stop teams just running through us at least.

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On 02/12/2020 at 20:35, Tomaszk said:

I think that's a good idea yes.

There's just no one who can play there who's not a huge step down. Not that Smith would care but there would be plenty of criticism if he drops him and we put in a stinker losing to a side like Newcastle.

He needs to sort himself out he really does. Looks so out of shape. A new signing and being dropped just before Euros might give him a kick up the arse (though who would come off better there I don't know). I think he'll sort it out soon.

We can still win games though if he dosen't start.

For example after his injury last season we won v Norwich, Burnley and Watford. More wins than the 9-10 games he featured in when he returned after lockdown so I'd say Burnley or Newcastle is game we could get away with starting a Nakamba type in and allow Doug to push forward more towards box.

Would still start him in pretty much every away game as we need his energy in that, same for Trez.

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3 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

I love McGinn aswell but I get the feeling now he'll become pretty vulnerable if we have ambitions of finishing in top 8 in near future. Can still be a good squad player.

Out of interest what would you do to change the home losing run. Taking McGinn out and putting a more defensive minded player next to Doug might stop teams just running through us at least.

I agree if we were to sign a good one yes. There's no one who can do a better job than him right now.

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Just now, Tomaszk said:

I agree if we were to sign a good one yes. There's no one who can do a better job than him right now.

Get Luiz in position doing what he does. He's got mobility and better on the ball and can score a couple although I accept Nakamba wouldn't be as good at DM as Doug in positioning which I think he's really poor at.

Thinking back to last season and Luiz certainly wasn't DM when he came on at home to Watford and massively helped turn a 0-1 into a win. That was pretty crucial result given how it all played out.

One other thing....in the home games we're losing we have precious little to bring off the bench to give us an extra spark after 60 minutes so McGinn could also do that against tiring opponents.

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On 03/12/2020 at 09:53, MrBlack said:

McGinn played as the link between Luiz and Barkley. Receiving the ball just inside our half and starting attacks with the space he was afforded on the turn.  When he moved further forward and Conor was given that role in the last game, it meant he was totally ineffective. McGinn didn't do the closing down he did in his pervious role (neither did Conor),  and he didn't get any space on the ball being further up the pitch.  He needs to be played as the deep lying playmaker,  or he's largely wasted.... primarily because the only other player we have who can play that role is Luiz, but he's being used as a DM at the moment.

Grealish, McGinn, Luiz is the midfield 3 we need to play at the moment.  Traore Trez and AEG fighting it out for the wing spots.  If we need a more defensive line up Nakamba is the only option to replace Luiz. This is also the only option we have to rest McGinn, moving Luiz into his role and Nakamba taking over Luiz's role, but it would be significantly worse.

Any other midfield 3 is going to get exposed and overrun,  and we'd need a lot of luck for it to work out (although Ramsey had looked pretty decent in his cameos so far and might be an option)

So then we need to look at this in January......hopefully they do.

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