MarkLillis Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) On 12/02/2023 at 11:15, sidcow said: My son showed me a handball in a Burnley game that wasn't given. Suprised it's not been discussed on here. Player threw himself across the box and tipped a ball round the post yet not given. How it is possible to not consider that a clear and obvious error? The whole thing is just shit. This is because no matter how much technology we have the decision is still down to a person. Its upto the VAR operators opinion about how much intent was involved. VAR will never fix bad handball calls… Edited February 13, 2023 by MarkLillis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 I just don't get why they don't hire a couple more people to stand in the VAR box to say "Hey Steve you didn't draw the offside lines mate". Billions of pounds flying around the league and VAR, where a decision could change the course of seasons and careers, is left to one guy who occasionally just missed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said: I just don't get why they don't hire a couple more people to stand in the VAR box to say "Hey Steve you didn't draw the offside lines mate". Billions of pounds flying around the league and VAR, where a decision could change the course of seasons and careers, is left to one guy who occasionally just missed something. Or even automate the system so it flashes red or something to remind them. Something so basic and important is missed. They should be fired tbh not merely miss a week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 51 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said: I just don't get why they don't hire a couple more people to stand in the VAR box to say "Hey Steve you didn't draw the offside lines mate". Billions of pounds flying around the league and VAR, where a decision could change the course of seasons and careers, is left to one guy who occasionally just missed something. It's not just one guy though, there's already a bunch of them in there. The problem is the organisation. It's an old boys club who's main aim is to protect itself against criticism. It can't improve because it can't admit it has a problem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 5 hours ago, ThunderPower_14 said: I just don't get why they don't hire a couple more people to stand in the VAR box to say "Hey Steve you didn't draw the offside lines mate". Billions of pounds flying around the league and VAR, where a decision could change the course of seasons and careers, is left to one guy who occasionally just missed something. Again just like the world cup where they had a 5 man team, made the decision far quicker too I also don't see why the VAR has to be a pitch ref on rotation, the argument would be that you need experience to handle the pressure of the PL out there but you telling me they can't have a wave of fresh faces as Vars? Failing that I don't know why the likes of John Moss who are so blatantly out of shape aren't stuck in the VAR room, it should become a specialist thing again making it quicker in theory 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calcifer Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 VAR should be run by an independent company, not by Premier League Refs. They can't get on field decision correct so how the hell can they be expected to call a VAR decision? Time and time again it makes the headlines for the wrong reasons. It's sucked the joy out of football. Score a goal then its takes someone 5 mins to find a reason to disallow the goal if it's against a sky club. You can't even celebrate straight away anymore as you are waiting for the VAR check! Pathetic! The standard of refs in the country is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Quote Referee John Brooks taken off VAR duty for two matches after Brighton error Referees’ chief Howard Webb calls meeting for Tuesday The VAR official who denied Brighton a goal against Crystal Palace on Saturday because he drew an offside line in the wrong place has been stood down from two Premier League fixtures. John Brooks has been replaced as VAR at Monday night’s Merseyside derby and Wednesday’s game between Arsenal and Manchester City. Andre Marriner and David Coote will control the monitors at the respective fixtures. An emergency meeting is being convened by Howard Webb, the head of the referees body the PGMOL, after a weekend of high-profile VAR errors. On Saturday, Brighton’s Pervis Estupiñán was denied the opening goal at Selhurst Park after he was adjudged offside. Brooks was found to have made his decision based on an offside line drawn from the position of the Palace defender James Tomkins when Marc Guéhi was deeper and playing Estupiñán onside. The game finished in a draw, with Brighton dropping points in their chase for a European spot. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/13/premier-league-officials-meeting-var-errors-howard-webb-arsenal-brighton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 11 minutes ago, Zatman said: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/13/premier-league-officials-meeting-var-errors-howard-webb-arsenal-brighton Two match suspension, the rest of them must be quaking with fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Maybe we should start getting bans for players when they make a mistake too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 17 minutes ago, bobzy said: Maybe we should start getting bans for players when they make a mistake too. I mean, this is pretty disingenuous isn't it? A player can make a mistake in the heat of moment, without the benefit of video replay. If a ref, whose one job it is to use a video replay to make an objective decision like offside, gets it wrong, then that's completely unacceptable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 12 hours ago, rjw63 said: Two match suspension, the rest of them must be quaking with fear. It’s not a punishment. These decisions could change the League fundamentally. Imagine if it costs Arsenal the league. Or a similar mistake relegates a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted February 14, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14, 2023 6 minutes ago, The_Steve said: It’s not a punishment. These decisions could change the League fundamentally. Imagine if it costs Arsenal the league. Or a similar mistake relegates a team. No one has seen the goal line VAR operator since that fateful day in June 2020. Just Sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 (edited) For offside surely technology could take over. Is a past, b then offside. it could work it out in a split second. They use it for goal line stuff, and as far as I know that's made 1 mistake in years Edited February 14, 2023 by colhint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: I mean, this is pretty disingenuous isn't it? A player can make a mistake in the heat of moment, without the benefit of video replay. If a ref, whose one job it is to use a video replay to make an objective decision like offside, gets it wrong, then that's completely unacceptable. But in the examples given, they'd taken ages to check an original offside (in the Arsenal game) and then probably thought "OK, check done - let's not waste another 3 minutes here" when the reality was that there was another slight offside. We all moan about the time taken with VAR, but then also want VAR to check absolutely everything. It's a mistake, it happens. The same with the Brighton game (although more farcical I suppose), whatever technology they use has been applied to the wrong player. It's a mistake. The same way that Martinez and Chambers getting mixed up with poor communication is a mistake. These things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 12 minutes ago, bobzy said: But in the examples given, they'd taken ages to check an original offside (in the Arsenal game) and then probably thought "OK, check done - let's not waste another 3 minutes here" when the reality was that there was another slight offside. We all moan about the time taken with VAR, but then also want VAR to check absolutely everything. It's a mistake, it happens. The same with the Brighton game (although more farcical I suppose), whatever technology they use has been applied to the wrong player. It's a mistake. The same way that Martinez and Chambers getting mixed up with poor communication is a mistake. These things happen. Apart from the world cup where it was used quickly and compentently by a team of VAR officials from footballing powerhouses such as Singapore and Canada (but funnily enough no one from the PL...) they had specific VAR refs The PL has further riches, if the likes of Anthony Taylor can't draw lines on quick enough then get him an IT kid who is an expert at the software and can, if he can't circle through the 10 camera angles quick enough then get him a sky producer who can, on top of that what the WC did was have 5 people looking at it not 1 Then they used better technology than using the lines Its mistakes they can at least reduce if they shared the load but they don't want to Starting point for me would be VAR only specialist refs, that's a no brainer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 On top of that which is another grey area or misunderstanding my understanding was that VAR do watch everything - there are restrictions as to what they can do and when but they are always watching, they review the entire game, I don't get this garbage when they announce it that VAR are reviewing something or it left open that VAR didn't review something like he's sat there with a blank TV until a review kicks in, he watches everything, he watches the entire game just like we do at home, the whole notion that VAR didn't take a look at something is just more confusion and bullshit, he's seen it he just decided not to do anything Which again FIFA did better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 37 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Apart from the world cup where it was used quickly and compentently by a team of VAR officials from footballing powerhouses such as Singapore and Canada (but funnily enough no one from the PL...) they had specific VAR refs The PL has further riches, if the likes of Anthony Taylor can't draw lines on quick enough then get him an IT kid who is an expert at the software and can, if he can't circle through the 10 camera angles quick enough then get him a sky producer who can, on top of that what the WC did was have 5 people looking at it not 1 Then they used better technology than using the lines Its mistakes they can at least reduce if they shared the load but they don't want to Starting point for me would be VAR only specialist refs, that's a no brainer Agreed, and that will be trotted out to the PL in due course (as with every other technology change that has happened, it's tested elsewhere before it comes into our footballing beast). The bigger error recently was the lack of handball given against West Ham - but that's probably down to the way they've completely **** up the handball rule. But the Brentford offside against Arsenal, I mean it's so easy to see why it's been missed. They checked an initial offside and they checked it for ages. The second phase element wasn't picked up by anybody/got lost in the mire whilst agonising over the initial offside. I just can't subscribe to this idea of "THE REF NEEDS TO BE PUNISHED!" when it's just someone making a mistake like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 The absolute root cause of all of this is the abuse referees get. We didn’t know how good we had it with Ellery, Poll, Halsey, etc. The quality of refs has declined because there are no refs. I used to referee and stopped as I like many others feared for my safety practically every weekend and realised it just wasn’t worth it. I would wager a good number on here who spend half the game thread whinging about refs are the same ones who spit rage at referees when they play and are, funnily enough, the actual problem. Enforce and make it entirely standard for there to be a yellow card for every single show of dissent, red cards for aggressively confronting a referee. The problem isn’t refs getting it wrong because they aren’t actually trying to get it wrong. It’s the refs being forced out of the game by the players who have no respect or in most cases even a shred of humanity towards a fellow human just trying to do there job. Protect decent refs, allow them a path to the big time and see the quality improve. It really isn’t rocket science. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Agreed @Spoony, especially at the grassroots level. At a pro level you might get crowded and shouted at. At the grassroots level, you get some proper unhinged bellends, without the assurance of TV cameras and a whole bunch of support staff and police to give you a reasonable degree of safety. Refereeing in the lower tiers is genuinely scary and dangerous, if it kicks off, you're on your own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Agree at grassroots level but not in the PL They put a meglomaniac in charge of PGMOL, Mike Riley is to blame for the vast majority of this shit, there was a stat kicking around a couple of years back (so he's done more since then) that he'd made more rule changes in 5 years than had happened in the previous 100 No surprise that he's losing his job at the end of the season with Howard Webb coming in with a slightly different title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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