The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[Stevo985]

44 minutes ago, Zatman said:

The header from the Wolves player is backwards as well

That doesn't make a difference

[Stevo985]

I'm kinda with @bobzy on this one, it's not as obvious as is being made out, even though I do think if it's from the second header, the flick, then he is onside.

But the fact VAR isn't equipped to decide that properly is ridiculous

[Mantis]

54 minutes ago, villarule123 said:

VAR has totally killed the game for me. There's too many rules you can manipulate, there is almost certainly a bias towards certain 'bigger' teams and it causes more confusion than there was when you were just relying on referees. It also shows up how ridiculous some of the rules in football are i.e. handball, offside in which even the people officiating the matches don't seem to have a clue how they work. You have different referee pundits on TV that should be the experts, and even they are contradicting each other. 

The biggest thing for me though, and it always has been from day one, the 'moment' has been taken away from the game. The thing that always set apart football to all other sports, when a goal is scored. I don't celebrate goals anymore, I didn't celebrate Ings' goal against Wolves because I was waiting for the dreaded VAR check. 

I get why it was brought in, if you could guarantee consistency, non bias officiating, then it might work. But the rules and the game itself is far too complex for it to work. I'd happily see the back of it and never mention it ever again. 

This is how I feel too. I don't celebrate half our goals any more either.

[KentVillan]

I think VAR has been a net positive because it’s taken most of those absolutely ridiculous bad decisions out of the game that leave you fuming for years. It also allows defences to play a proper offside trap, knowing that most of the time they’ll get the correct decision.

However, VAR is often badly implemented and not being able to celebrate goals immediately is sad. It’s not been as good as we all thought it would be.

[ThunderPower_14]

The Salah goal is one of the most horrific onside calls i've ever seen. He was marginally onside and the defender couldn't have been sure of that, so defended. At that point, Salah is inarguably already interfering with the play. Disgusting.

The clearcut worst VAR decision I can think of, apart from maybe Rodri's arms out wide handball for Man City against Everton.

 

[Zatman]

55 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

The Salah goal is one of the most horrific onside calls i've ever seen. He was marginally onside and the defender couldn't have been sure of that, so defended. At that point, Salah is inarguably already interfering with the play. Disgusting.

The clearcut worst VAR decision I can think of, apart from maybe Rodri's arms out wide handball for Man City against Everton.

 

Mings one was worse I think was also Rodri

[fightoffyour]

1 hour ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

The Salah goal is one of the most horrific onside calls i've ever seen. He was marginally onside and the defender couldn't have been sure of that, so defended. At that point, Salah is inarguably already interfering with the play. Disgusting.

The clearcut worst VAR decision I can think of, apart from maybe Rodri's arms out wide handball for Man City against Everton.

 

Nope, the rules actually allow for this now. Not VAR's fault.

Edited January 8, 2023 by fightoffyour

[fightoffyour]

This is the first frame of the phone video after the ball has left the Wolves player's head, so the corner taker has moved further left here than the actual point of contact whereas the Liverpool defender at the back post is pretty stationary.

Someone would have to draw the perspective lines across the pitch, but there's definitely a chance this way actually offside. Again, there should have been camera angles of course though.

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by fightoffyour

[villa4europe]

13 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

Nope, the rules actually allow for this now. Not VAR's fault.

No they don't do they?

After mings they made it the rule, then realised how **** stupid it was and changed it back

Either way there's then another bigger point and problem... Them changing the rule every other summer means no one knows what's going on anymore

Same with handball

[fightoffyour]

8 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

No they don't do they?

After mings they made it the rule, then realised how **** stupid it was and changed it back

Either way there's then another bigger point and problem... Them changing the rule every other summer means no one knows what's going on anymore

Same with handball

Either the rules allow it are they are open to interpretation enough for an application of the rules to allow it. The line on MOTD was "the rules are wrong".

[ThunderPower_14]

22 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

Nope, the rules actually allow for this now. Not VAR's fault.

The rules are absolute garbage then. As far as i'm concerned, it should be offside the second the ball is played, Salah is in an offside position and doesn't take specific action to avoid the play. It should be offside before the defender has headed the ball and the defender "playing the ball" should be irrelevant. 

I can't believe it's gotten to the point where the rules allow this and it should be immediately remedied. It would be better to go back to ignoring whether an offside player is in play or not and just calling the offside every time than to have goals like that conceded.

 

39 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Mings one was worse I think was also Rodri

I think Mings was as bad. The same principle really. If you're in an offside position and you're moving towards the play, you should be considered in play and therefore immediately offside.

Rodri's handball was just more proof that VAR has pickled their brains of the PGMOL. 

[fightoffyour]

1 minute ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

The rules are absolute garbage then. As far as i'm concerned, it should be offside the second the ball is played, Salah is in an offside position and doesn't take specific action to avoid the play. It should be offside before the defender has headed the ball and the defender "playing the ball" should be irrelevant. 

I can't believe it's gotten to the point where the rules allow this and it should be immediately remedied. It would be better to go back to ignoring whether an offside player is in play or not and just calling the offside every time than to have goals like that conceded.

 

I think Mings was as bad. The same principle really. If you're in an offside position and you're moving towards the play, you should be considered in play and therefore immediately offside.

Rodri's handball was just more proof that VAR has pickled their brains of the PGMOL. 

I agree, as would almost every other football fan.

[ThunderPower_14]

1 minute ago, fightoffyour said:

I agree, as would almost every other football fan.

I feel like it's another one of those ones where the rules as written are up for interpretation and surprise surprise, a sky 6 club are the beneficiaries. 

The offside law says it's offside if the player in an offside position is: "clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent"

Salah is clearly trying to run onto the pass, and it's impacted on the opponent to the point where he's made a desperation header. No way does the defender attempt the header if there aren't any Liverpool players around, he just lets it run through to the keeper. 

VAR just gives the officials a second crack at making an arguably 50/50 decision in a big team's favour.

[fightoffyour]

10 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

I feel like it's another one of those ones where the rules as written are up for interpretation and surprise surprise, a sky 6 club are the beneficiaries. 

The offside law says it's offside if the player in an offside position is: "clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent"

Salah is clearly trying to run onto the pass, and it's impacted on the opponent to the point where he's made a desperation header. No way does the defender attempt the header if there aren't any Liverpool players around, he just lets it run through to the keeper. 

VAR just gives the officials a second crack at making an arguably 50/50 decision in a big team's favour.

It's not that rule that's being applied, it's the part I talked about here:

Quote

A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent, who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save), is not considered to have gained an advantage

 

[villa4europe]

I read that as being wishy washy as ****

He didn't receive the ball from the wolves defender, he received the ball from a team mate which the wolves player couldn't cut out, it's little more than a deflection

Receiving it from an opponent would mean a sloppy back pass without looking, he has deliberately attempted to play the ball but not deliberately played it like that

Its a case of the refs don't have a clue what they're watching and the rules are written in a way that let's them do what they please

There's no way in hell any ref at any level can watch that and think the wolves player did that on purpose

Edited January 8, 2023 by villa4europe

[villa4europe]

Why was the world cup set up so much better?

[StefanAVFC]

It is exactly the same wording that they used to try and claim Mings deliberately played the ball to Rodri by chesting it down. It’s deliberately vague to allow them to interpret exactly how they want to benefit certain teams. 
 

If the pass was to Raul Jimenez, it would have been given offside and upheld by VAR. 

[KentVillan]

2 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

It's not that rule that's being applied, it's the part I talked about here:

 

Salah is offside before that rule can be applied. We had this debate after the Mings incident. If the pass is *to* an offside player and cut out by the defender, then by definition the attacking player is interfering with play by being the intended recipient of the pass and forcing the defender into playing the ball. The fact the defender plays it is irrelevant, the offside has already happened.

[fightoffyour]

13 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Salah is offside before that rule can be applied. We had this debate after the Mings incident. If the pass is *to* an offside player and cut out by the defender, then by definition the attacking player is interfering with play by being the intended recipient of the pass and forcing the defender into playing the ball. The fact the defender plays it is irrelevant, the offside has already happened.

Again, I agree, but that is what they've done and apparently can do. Of course Salah is an offside position otherwise we wouldn't even be discussing it.

Do you mean before the rule should be applied? Or are you saying this was just a mistake by the officials?

[KentVillan]

5 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

Again, I agree, but that is what they've done and apparently can do. Of course Salah is an offside position otherwise we wouldn't even be discussing it.

Do you mean before the rule should be applied? Or are you saying this was just a mistake by the officials?

I think, based on my less than perfect understanding of the rules, the officials have made a mistake - going on what was said after the Mings v City incident. I believe it was clarified that this type of situation is offside.

However, perhaps there had been a subsequent clarification to the guidance that reverses that. God knows.

I think refs and VAR often hide behind “interpretation” when in fact the rules & guidance are clearer than you think. There does seem to be a bias towards certain clubs in how these ones play out. It’s annoying. The quality of English refereeing is poor relative to the quality of the league, and the reluctance to own up to mistakes or explain decisions just makes it worse.