The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[blandy]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

the implementation here has been absolutely horrific. They've tried to be clever and completely **** it up.

But like I said they're never going to change who has implemented it. The two are too intertwined now. We're better off scrapping it.

It has been poorly implemented I agree. But personally I think it’s salvageable. The principle of “clear and obvious error” by an on field official needs to be adhered to. At the moment it isn’t, though it’s less badly done now than at the start where it seemed like there was an attempt to find a reason to cancel every goal.

we’ve seen with FIFA and UEFA tournaments that VAR works when you have the best people involved. English referees are not currently at the level necessary, or not enough of them are. VAR or no VAR it’s that which is the cause of too many wrong decisions. My perception is that VAR is catching more errors than it is introducing, and that those it does introduce should be prevented by the use of the ref looking at a play back on the pitch side monitor and having the confidence to go with his original decision if there’s no clear and obvious error, or if his view at the time was blocked and he missed something, to use the tv images to correct something he missed.

[Stevo985]

3 hours ago, blandy said:

It has been poorly implemented I agree. But personally I think it’s salvageable. The principle of “clear and obvious error” by an on field official needs to be adhered to. At the moment it isn’t, though it’s less badly done now than at the start where it seemed like there was an attempt to find a reason to cancel every goal.

we’ve seen with FIFA and UEFA tournaments that VAR works when you have the best people involved. English referees are not currently at the level necessary, or not enough of them are. VAR or no VAR it’s that which is the cause of too many wrong decisions. My perception is that VAR is catching more errors than it is introducing, and that those it does introduce should be prevented by the use of the ref looking at a play back on the pitch side monitor and having the confidence to go with his original decision if there’s no clear and obvious error, or if his view at the time was blocked and he missed something, to use the tv images to correct something he missed.

I used to think it was salvageable. I just don’t think PGMOL are capable of stepping back and realising the issues, let alone fixing them. 

[Tayls]

Why can’t we bring in some officials from other leagues with VAR experience to train our officials on how to use it properly? 

[theboyangel]

53 minutes ago, Tayls said:

Why can’t we bring in some officials from other leagues with VAR experience to train our officials on how to use it properly? 

Because our officiating association are arrogant in their belief they're the best there is and wouldn't demean themselves by taking advice of lesser officials. 

They genuinely believe they are utilizing VAR correctly

[villa4europe]

30 minutes ago, theboyangel said:

Because our officiating association are arrogant in their belief they're the best there is and wouldn't demean themselves by taking advice of lesser officials. 

They genuinely believe they are utilizing VAR correctly

They make them drop lower don't they? 

I'm sure the aussie guy spent a few years in the EFL before he qualified 

[OutByEaster?]

I still think that referees should not be the VAR for their own league.

We should have Scottish referees or German referees manning our VAR - it doesn't matter where they are in the world.

Our refs can VAR for France or Italy or wherever.

It should change on a match by match basis with the principle that there isn't a bias based on friendships or personal relationships. 

 

[tomav84]

9 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I still think that referees should not be the VAR for their now league.

We should have Scottish referees or German referees manning our VAR - it doesn't matter where they are in the world.

Our refs can VAR for France or Italy or wherever.

It should change on a match by match basis with the principle that there isn't a bias based on friendships or personal relationships. 

 

interesting suggestion...i imagine there's all kinds of bureaucracy that stops this from happening though.

is the reason they side with their suggestion purely as simple as them being mates though? in any case, the issue isn't that they're blindly agreeing with the VAR, it's that they're being called to the screen in the first place for absolutely no reason.

[Villaphan04]

47 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

They make them drop lower don't they? 

I'm sure the aussie guy spent a few years in the EFL before he qualified 

if they move confederations (i think that's the correct word), then they have to start at the bottom of that new one , like Jarred Gillett. 

 

who, btw, was the VAR who told the on field ref to go look at the disallowed West Ham 2nd goal

[dappadan]

Just give each manager 1 VAR challenge per game each and let the officials decide the rest of the game.

Could even be like other sports where a successful appeal sees you keep the challenge.

Not sure how that solves the bias still though.

[Zatman]

3 hours ago, Tayls said:

Why can’t we bring in some officials from other leagues with VAR experience to train our officials on how to use it properly? 

You dont need VAR experience its just being an actual referee. The issue is that making a bad call against some teams is career ending

In Serie A about 20 years ago a number of big teams signed a petition for Collina not to ref when they play and about 5 years later were all caught up in a match fixing scandal.

English football stinks and nobody has the bottle to call it out

[OutByEaster?]

I think the big problem in our league is that it's being used to 'help referees' rather than to make the right decisions.

It's a referee on an industrial estate in Slough who regularly has a curry with the referee on the field after games where he's been fourth official trying really hard to dig his mate out of trouble because he thinks he's made a mistake - not a genuine attempt to make the right decisions in games.

[fightoffyour]

8 hours ago, dappadan said:

Just give each manager 1 VAR challenge per game each and let the officials decide the rest of the game.

Could even be like other sports where a successful appeal sees you keep the challenge.

Not sure how that solves the bias still though.

Was just about to suggest VAR challenges by the captain/manager that send the on-pitch referee to look at the incident again (this could be done on a tablet they carry round to save time). That way they can see a replay of the incident without the bias of someone saying "I think you should look at that again". This essentially makes the referee also the VAR, so they are still in control (in theory). 2/3 challenges each per match, successful ones retained. Max review time 1 minute or stick with original decision.

Probably some reasons why this is a crap idea, but it's a suggestion for how to use video replays yet drastically changing the current, failing system.

[jimmygreaves]

52 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think the big problem in our league is that it's being used to 'help referees' rather than to make the right decisions.

It's a referee on an industrial estate in Slough who regularly has a curry with the referee on the field after games where he's been fourth official trying really hard to dig his mate out of trouble because he thinks he's made a mistake - not a genuine attempt to make the right decisions in games.

I think it's the complete opposite.... If they can feck over their 'mate' with a poor VAR decision then there's a better chance of them presiding over the next big match.

It's ref's vs ref's. They all want to take the big games off each other. By making someone else look incompetent is all the better for themselves.

The VAR ref's shouldn't also be on-pitch ref's the following week. It's a massive and obvious conflict of interest.

[tomav84]

3 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said:

I think it's the complete opposite.... If they can feck over their 'mate' with a poor VAR decision then there's a better chance of them presiding over the next big match.

It's ref's vs ref's. They all want to take the big games off each other. By making someone else look incompetent is all the better for themselves.

The VAR ref's shouldn't also be on-pitch ref's the following week. It's a massive and obvious conflict of interest.

i think to suggest that the refs being mates is the problem is absurd

IMO, it's equally as absurd that the problem is that refs want to make the other look bad so they get the better games

and even more absurd that there's corruption and that's why the refereeing performances are so bad

all of these suggestions, frankly, gives the referees too much credit. they're just **** shit at their jobs. and when you're shit at your job, you shouldn't be employed to do it anymore

problem is there's no decent refs out there...and ex pros earn more from an appearance doing punditry for EFL on a Friday night than they do refereeing a PL game, so even if there was an appetite to have ex pros refereeing, i doubt many would put their hands up to volunteer

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, tomav84 said:

i think to suggest that the refs being mates is the problem is absurd

IMO, it's equally as absurd that the problem is that refs want to make the other look bad so they get the better games

and even more absurd that there's corruption and that's why the refereeing performances are so bad

all of these suggestions, frankly, gives the referees too much credit. they're just **** shit at their jobs. and when you're shit at your job, you shouldn't be employed to do it anymore

problem is there's no decent refs out there...and ex pros earn more from an appearance doing punditry for EFL on a Friday night than they do refereeing a PL game, so even if there was an appetite to have ex pros refereeing, i doubt many would put their hands up to volunteer

The ex-pro’s would have to come from the lower leagues I’d suspect, where I’m sure there’d be an appetite for continuing to earn some decent money.

I think ex-pro’s is the way to go but there’d still be issues around preventing bias etc. Unless a workable AI is created I don’t think we can ever get away from human bias unfortunately in terms of match officiating.

[villa4europe]

29 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

The ex-pro’s would have to come from the lower leagues I’d suspect, where I’m sure there’d be an appetite for continuing to earn some decent money.

I think ex-pro’s is the way to go but there’d still be issues around preventing bias etc. Unless a workable AI is created I don’t think we can ever get away from human bias unfortunately in terms of match officiating.

That's why I think the ex pro part would actually be better as released academy players, would give them say 5 years to learn the job and gain experience before they hit their peak physicality too, their athleticism in theory shouldn't be too far behind the PL players (unless of course that's why they were released) 

Agree that the bias will always exist, they can't shut themselves off from the pressure, if anything that's getting worse as there's so much exposure 

[ender4]

New automated VAR system in the Chelsea CL match. 

Rules out a goal for offside. 

No idea if it should or shouldn’t have been.

[PieFacE]

18 minutes ago, ender4 said:

New automated VAR system in the Chelsea CL match. 

Rules out a goal for offside. 

No idea if it should or shouldn’t have been.

Saw this on Twitter
 

Thought it looked decent. I have no issues with a system like this providing it's quick. 

[WHY]

I just wish there was some clarification on what they deem clear and obvious, this is what is causing the main problem imo. Take the West Ham goal on Saturday for instance, the on field ref has a good view and gives the goal, no problem. For whatever reason VAR then get involved and decide the ref has made a clear and obvious mistake. At no point in the context of a game of football is that a clear and obvious mistake. It’s like they are over scrutinising every goal to find something, this isn’t what is was introduced for. The sooner they explain clear and obvious the better. 

[villa89]

On 05/09/2022 at 17:28, blandy said:

The principle of “clear and obvious error” by an on field official needs to be adhered to.

That's been my stance since the start. In my mind its something for egregious errors, like the wrong player been sent off, two footed tackles, blatant penalties not given. The problem now is the VAR officials are far too keen to get involved and be part of the action. They love being talked about. Maybe once a weekend there should be a VAR intervention, instead its every game for nonsense things like arsenals disallowed goal last weekend. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by villa89