Racism

[Rodders]

Quote

Don't get what's wrong with blackface? Here's why it's so offensive.

Contiunes...

https://www.vox.com/2014/10/29/7089591/dont-get-whats-wrong-with-blackface-heres-why-its-so-offensive

Ok,

I think this makes salient points, applicable beyond just US too. So erm... yeah, edited out my above post, which came across rather unappreciative of the impact.

Anyway.....

 

 

 

 

[LondonLax]

There is a history and context to a white person putting black face paint on. If you are not aware of it you (probably understandably) would not know what the fuss was about but if you dig into the background you quickly realise it’s one of those ‘no longer done’ things. 

[lapal_fan]

10 hours ago, Jon said:

White people 'blacking up' to mock a black person (which is what has hapeened here) is pretty racist in my book.  

So you can't dress up as someone, BECAUSE they happen to black?

White chicks? Is that ok? because it's black people stereotyping white people.

Can we dress up as an umpa lumpa? Or kim jon il? Bin Laden? Or is it literally JUST black people?

Again, he's not mocking the colour of her skin, he's mocking her incompetence with numbers. That's not racist. Lol **** hell.

[mjmooney]

8 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

So you can't dress up as someone, BECAUSE they happen to black?

White chicks? Is that ok? because it's black people stereotyping white people.

Can we dress up as an umpa lumpa? Or kim jon il? Bin Laden? Or is it literally JUST black people?

Again, he's not mocking the colour of her skin, he's mocking her incompetence with numbers. That's not racist. Lol **** hell.

Are you aware of the amount of really nasty racist hate mail that Abbott gets? 

It's relevant. 

[lapal_fan]

Just now, mjmooney said:

Are you aware of the amount of really nasty racist hate mail that Abbott gets? 

It's relevant. 

Nope.

Would I have dressed up as her? No way.

Do I think it's funny? Nope.

But to call that person racist for doing so is wrong unless he comes out and says "I did it because she was black".  As with a lot these days, this could have serious repercussions on his life and I imagine he's feeling quite stupid atm.

[Straggler]

28 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

So you can't dress up as someone, BECAUSE they happen to black?

White chicks? Is that ok? because it's black people stereotyping white people.

Can we dress up as an umpa lumpa? Or kim jon il? Bin Laden? Or is it literally JUST black people?

Again, he's not mocking the colour of her skin, he's mocking her incompetence with numbers. That's not racist. Lol **** hell.

Do yourself a favour and have a google about what the history of blacking up actually is.  I've stated just a few posts ago that dressing as a black person is just fine, all you have to avoid is plastering on the black makeup. If you don't understand the context of why people get upset about this issue (which it seems that you genuinely don't or you would not need to ask if it is ok to dress as an umpa lumpa) then you are starting from shaky ground..  If you can't be bothered to understand how one persons joke is another persons expression of hate towards an entire race then that is on you.  This probably needs another thread as I think we are properly derailing this one, but if you can spare the time, take a moment to walk in anothers shoes and listen to why this sort of thing is not cool by someone who can express it far better than I.

 

[peterms]

 

29 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Again, he's not mocking the colour of her skin, he's mocking her incompetence with numbers. That's not racist. Lol **** hell.

No, it's really not about her screwing up some figures in an interview.  Philip Hammond made mistakes of a far greater proportion, being just £20 billion out when asked the cost of HS2; quite a blunder for a Chancellor, but it doesn't seem to attract the same venom.  Michael Fallon misrepresented the number of people in the armed forces when he was the responsible Minister (but he's not good with figures, having absent-mindedly claimed £8400 too much in mortgage allowance, as you do).  And so on.

The extent and viciousness of the attacks on Abbott are well out of proportion with her blunders, in comparison with other politicans, and it's hard to see a credible explanation other than the most obvious one, racism.

18 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Are you aware of the amount of really nasty racist hate mail that Abbott gets? 

 

16 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Nope.

She gets quite a lot.

Quote

Labour Shadow Home SecretaryDiane Abbott was the victim of almost half the abuse directed at women MPs on Twitter during the 2017 election campaign, according to Amnesty International research.

Ms Abbott temporarily stood down in the last days of the campaign for health reasons, and has since highlighted the extraordinary levels of racist and sexist abuse she receives daily on the website.

She received ten times more abuse than any other individual MP in the six weeks before the June 8 vote.

Human rights researcher Azmina Dhrodia, who published the report, looked at almost a million tweets sent in the first half of the year. 

She found Black and Asian female MPs were sent 35% more abusive messages than white MPs...

And of course a very big factor in this is the way she is treated by rags like the Mail, which relentlessly signal that she should be a target.  Anna Soubry and others have recently felt the impact of some of this over Brexit, but with Abbott, it's a persistent feature, not related to one policy issue. 

Don't feed it, don't sympathise with it, don't go along with the lie that it's innocent or not racist.  Just call it out when it happens, and reject it.

[Xann]

[lapal_fan]

4 minutes ago, peterms said:

She gets quite a lot.

And of course a very big factor in this is the way she is treated by rags like the Mail, which relentlessly signal that she should be a target.  Anna Soubry and others have recently felt the impact of some of this over Brexit, but with Abbott, it's a persistent feature, not related to one policy issue. 

Don't feed it, don't sympathise with it, don't go along with the lie that it's innocent or not racist.  Just call it out when it happens, and reject it.

Thats good info thank you.

I WAS going to say in previous posts that the right wing press don't help with the exposure, but I forgot as I was playing thomas the tank engine with my kid. 

Obviously the stats back it up with regards to nasty messages being sent to her by social media abusers, but I think that's a separate issue.  

As I said, it's not big or clever, but to label that bloke as racist is pretty poor.  He's probably as clueless as me when it comes to things that's happened in the 1950s in America that we NOW need to to not do.  

As I said, I wouldn't do it, and the guy is a wally for letting himself be seen out and about like that but I doubt he's racist. 

[leemond2008]

Is Papa Lazarou racist?

Hello DAAAAVVE

I'm hoping he puts in an appearance on the 3rd episode tonight

[TheAuthority]

2 hours ago, Straggler said:

Do yourself a favour and have a google about what the history of blacking up actually is.  I've stated just a few posts ago that dressing as a black person is just fine, all you have to avoid is plastering on the black makeup. If you don't understand the context of why people get upset about this issue (which it seems that you genuinely don't or you would not need to ask if it is ok to dress as an umpa lumpa) then you are starting from shaky ground..  If you can't be bothered to understand how one persons joke is another persons expression of hate towards an entire race then that is on you.  This probably needs another thread as I think we are properly derailing this one, but if you can spare the time, take a moment to walk in anothers shoes and listen to why this sort of thing is not cool by someone who can express it far better than I.

 

 

Thank for articulating the issue clearly and calmly. I put a sad face on the OP and that poster decided to put sad faces on a load of my posts in retaliation*  (unrelated posts in an unrelated thread.)

I should have posted this:

Quote

If you can't be bothered to understand how one persons joke is another persons expression of hate towards an entire race then that is on you. 

 

*BTW, the ignore button works a treat.

Edited December 20, 2017 by TheAuthority

[peterms]

 

[Rob182]

So, in summary, people should only make jokes after they have read up on all the different ways that groups of people have been wronged, ridiculed or shown hate towards in the history of the world, to make sure that their joke doesn’t fall into one of these categories?

 

FYI - I would never black up, (am I allowed to say ‘black up’ anymore? I haven’t heard it said for a while but I think it’s okay), not because I think it’s racist but just because I don’t think it’s funny, and also I don’t really like putting any make-up on. 

[maqroll]

 

[maqroll]

Blackface was used to denigrate, humiliate, and ridicule. It also served as a propaganda tool used to reinforce negative stereotypes. It was immensely damaging to black people in a lot of different ways.

[Mark Albrighton]

I remember that Matt Lucas & David Walliams show set in an airport involved a few instances where they wore make up to portray characters of different ethnicities. I think accents were used as well, can’t be sure.

That was shown in 2010 and I remember being surprised at the time that it was deemed suitable to be aired.

[villakram]

...in the land of the post modernist, perception is reality.

Edited December 20, 2017 by villakram

[peterms]

11 hours ago, Rob182 said:

So, in summary, people should only make jokes after they have read up on all the different ways that groups of people have been wronged, ridiculed or shown hate towards in the history of the world, to make sure that their joke doesn’t fall into one of these categories?

If that's meant to be sarcasm, it's too crude and wooden to be amusing.

Translating the sentiment behind it to the UK about now, what is suggested is that if you hear that certain expressions, actions or attitudes are offensive, you make some attempt to understand why, so that you can choose not to use them and avoid offence, or else use them in the knowledge that you seek to offend.  Preferably the former, but it's really your choice.

We had the same discussion, as a society, about terms like nigger, coloured, cripple and others.  We seemed to manage to deal with that.

11 hours ago, Rob182 said:

am I allowed to say ‘black up’ anymore?

You are "allowed" to do all sorts of things.  You are for example allowed to act like a complete arse.  You are also allowed to be called out and criticised for it.

I really struggle to understand why some people like to pretend there is some sort of Stasi exercising thought control over them, rather than simply commenting when they act like ****.  Something about revelling in imagined victimhood, I suppose.

[TheAuthority]

41 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said:

I remember that Matt Lucas & David Walliams show set in an airport involved a few instances where they wore make up to portray characters of different ethnicities. I think accents were used as well, can’t be sure.

That was shown in 2010 and I remember being surprised at the time that it was deemed suitable to be aired.

There was a Spike Milligan tv show from the late 60's that caused huge controversy - he played an Indian in "black-face." It's also called white-washing in movies when a white actor in make up plays the part of a person of color.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry_and_Chips

It is on youtube if you care to look. Pretty crude humor.

[lapal_fan]

I understand the sentiments.. I really do.  I know how far racial equality has come, even since I was a kid in the 90s.  I also see what needs to be done to further equality when I watch American cop shows.

I've had 1 good black gut friend at uni.  I've had several good Pakistani friends at my school.  I work with some Asian people and a really cool black lady.  I speak to them everyday and they are my equals (obviously).

But I'm not going to judge a bloke who dressed up as a black woman, who did something dopey in her rather important job and has been in the news recently.  

If you want to blame anyone, blame the right wing press.  Blame them for singling out Dianne Abbott and not calling on the other white people who have done the same, if not worse.

As has been said on here, even on TV within the last few years, lots of people have "black faced" up on various comedy programmes.  What happened 40 years before I was born, in the states doesn't reflect or even have any bearing in halesowen, where I'm from.  I've gone through school, college and uni without seeing this thing.  I know golly wogs, I know he was based on the minstrels, I know that's wrong.

But when I see modern tv personalities doing it, who am I to moan about a bloke down the darts doing it?

That fight is not in my hemisphere.