Ahmed Elmohamady

[Thug]

19 hours ago, The Other Mat said:

Elmo was the best rated player on the pitch according to Whoscored yesterday. I know stats don't tell the whole story, but least he's doing the basics right. He's getting on now though and the pace of the Prem is catching up to him especially in the final 15mins.

Corrected for you

[villalad21]

Elmo been one of our best players  for the past 4 months.

 

[Rob182]

9 hours ago, weedman said:

The clamouring for Guilbert is weird to me. Elmo has been one of our best players since he came back into the team and hasn't put a foot wrong this season. If Guilbert was a starting PL quality RB why would he sign for us (a mid table Championship team at the time), amidst no competition, and once we managed to sign this quality of player, why would we subsequently loan him back to France for another 6 months?

Maybe he's simply not as good as we hope, and while is capable of being a backup (or even starter should we get relegated), he's just not ready for this league yet? I could understand people clamouring for us to play him if Elmo was doing terribly, but again, he's been one of our better players since coming into the team last season and that has continued into this one. Perhaps Guilbert will benefit from being a backup and getting the odd game here and there for his 1st season in England in arguably the toughest league in the world, and as long as Elmo continues playing well I don't see the problem with that

The two bold points:

Firstly, aside from Spurs and Bournemouth, Elmo being 'one of our best players' is referencing him against Championship teams. That holds no weight for me now. Yes, the shirt is his to lose, but lets not forget that there have been plenty of games where he's not looked good enough against Championship opposition.

Secondly, I think it was reported that it was part of the deal that to sign Guilbert, we agreed to send him back on loan. They were in a relegation battle and probably wouldn't agree to sell and let one of their best players leave mid-season, without the agreement that he can go back and help them to survive the drop.

As for the 'clamouring', despite Elmo having a decent couple of games, he's still a fairly limited player. Before the start of the season, 90% of Villa fans had Guilbert in their starting eleven. Partly because we're all hoping that Guilbert is good enough, but also partly because of how limited Elmo is, as was evident in the Championship.

I, for one, feel like I saw more from Guilbert in pre-season (albeit against lesser opposition), in the way of pace, passing and workrate. His crossing seemed on a par with Elmo's, but again, the opposition was weaker, so that's hard to judge.

I won't be surprised if Elmo is still playing on Friday, and I won't be too disappointed because he has played well. But, would I prefer to swap Elmo's reliability and limited attacking ability, for Guilbert's youthful exuberance, pace, workrate and passing ability that I hope will come good in the Prem? - Yes. Sue me.

[weedman]

14 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

The two bold points:

Firstly, aside from Spurs and Bournemouth, Elmo being 'one of our best players' is referencing him against Championship teams. That holds no weight for me now. Yes, the shirt is his to lose, but lets not forget that there have been plenty of games where he's not looked good enough against Championship opposition.

Secondly, I think it was reported that it was part of the deal that to sign Guilbert, we agreed to send him back on loan. They were in a relegation battle and probably wouldn't agree to sell and let one of their best players leave mid-season, without the agreement that he can go back and help them to survive the drop.

As for the 'clamouring', despite Elmo having a decent couple of games, he's still a fairly limited player. Before the start of the season, 90% of Villa fans had Guilbert in their starting eleven. Partly because we're all hoping that Guilbert is good enough, but also partly because of how limited Elmo is, as was evident in the Championship.

I, for one, feel like I saw more from Guilbert in pre-season (albeit against lesser opposition), in the way of pace, passing and workrate. His crossing seemed on a par with Elmo's, but again, the opposition was weaker, so that's hard to judge.

I won't be surprised if Elmo is still playing on Friday, and I won't be too disappointed because he has played well. But, would I prefer to swap Elmo's reliability and limited attacking ability, for Guilbert's youthful exuberance, pace, workrate and passing ability that I hope will come good in the Prem? - Yes. Sue me.

I agree with what you're saying, however you used the word "hope" a few times and that's the point, I'm as hopeful as anyone that he turns out to be good, and while he did look good in pre season I learned several years ago to pay no attention to them when I watched Gabby skip past 3 or 4 players with some lovely footwork and slot the ball home. When the season started he wasn't suddenly Messi, he was the same Gabby as always. The opposition and overall lack of intensity makes things much easier for everyone.

I too hope Guilbert turns out to be a star, but as we learned in the 1st two games we can't afford mistakes at the moment because we'll be punished. The pressure is huge right now and I am fully behind continuing Elmo (unless his performances drop) for now, once we've got a few points on the board and if (hopefully) we can get ourselves a few points clear of the drop then I'd be all for giving him a few games to see what he's got

[AVTuco]

12 hours ago, brummybloke said:

The speed in which BOTH fullbacks release the ball forwards is an issue.

As I already said, neither have done much if any wrong defensively however their lack of speed impacts the entire team.

Elmo less than taylor which is why I suggested swapping trez for gilbert.

Slow build up means the other team are more likely to press. If they press, we are more likely to make mistakes.

Sometimes a slow build up is required but doing it the majority of the time is far more effort and work because the other team have time to nullify.

Defend from the front is what we used to be good at, with 1 player isolated it's never going to happen so we either accept we are going to be pressed back in pretty much every game or we change things around which involves either formation or players or both.

Bearing in mind Smith has a set formation it only leaves a change in player to get the best from his system.

Good post brummybloke.

I get this, and I agree with you that longer term we'd hope Guilbert is good enough to do what you say. However, it very much seems like Dean thinks he's not the answer currently. If he was, he'd play.

I think we have more problems elsewhere than full backs though. I think people would want to change full backs because they wanted the other guys to start in the first place. And now that we have lost two, it's natural to want to change this to the way people wanted all along. 

 

[AVTuco]

25 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

The two bold points:

Firstly, aside from Spurs and Bournemouth, Elmo being 'one of our best players' is referencing him against Championship teams. That holds no weight for me now. Yes, the shirt is his to lose, but lets not forget that there have been plenty of games where he's not looked good enough against Championship opposition.

Secondly, I think it was reported that it was part of the deal that to sign Guilbert, we agreed to send him back on loan. They were in a relegation battle and probably wouldn't agree to sell and let one of their best players leave mid-season, without the agreement that he can go back and help them to survive the drop.

As for the 'clamouring', despite Elmo having a decent couple of games, he's still a fairly limited player. Before the start of the season, 90% of Villa fans had Guilbert in their starting eleven. Partly because we're all hoping that Guilbert is good enough, but also partly because of how limited Elmo is, as was evident in the Championship.

I, for one, feel like I saw more from Guilbert in pre-season (albeit against lesser opposition), in the way of pace, passing and workrate. His crossing seemed on a par with Elmo's, but again, the opposition was weaker, so that's hard to judge.

I won't be surprised if Elmo is still playing on Friday, and I won't be too disappointed because he has played well. But, would I prefer to swap Elmo's reliability and limited attacking ability, for Guilbert's youthful exuberance, pace, workrate and passing ability that I hope will come good in the Prem? - Yes. Sue me.

It's all hope at the moment.

[Rob182]

22 minutes ago, AVTuco said:

Good post brummybloke.

I get this, and I agree with you that longer term we'd hope Guilbert is good enough to do what you say. However, it very much seems like Dean thinks he's not the answer currently. If he was, he'd play.

I think we have more problems elsewhere than full backs though. I think people would want to change full backs because they wanted the other guys to start in the first place. And now that we have lost two, it's natural to want to change this to the way people wanted all along. 

 

 

19 minutes ago, AVTuco said:

It's all hope at the moment.

& @weedman 

To be fair, it's all hope because Guilbert hasn't had a chance yet. People are right when they say that Guilbert looking good in pre-season doesn't count for much, but then again, I don't remember Elmo looking anywhere near the level that that Guilbert did against whichever League One teams we played in the 2018/19 pre-season.

It's true that Smith didn't think he was the answer against Spurs and Bournemouth, but then also, we don't know for what reason. Perhaps defensive solidity? Perhaps continuity of last season's team. Maybe it's just for the Trez/Elmo connection down the right?

He's also choosing Taylor over our new £13m defender as well. Again, we don't know the reasons for that, but the excited kid in my wants to see both of the new lads.

[Kiwivillan]

Elmo should be dropped because people can't finish his excellent crosses including Grealish. Honestly I think weight of the occasion of being in PL is playing on Jack's mind and he's tensing up and snatching at chances. Needs to relax and the goals will come

[TRO]

18 hours ago, brummybloke said:

The speed in which BOTH fullbacks release the ball forwards is an issue.

As I already said, neither have done much if any wrong defensively however their lack of speed impacts the entire team.

Elmo less than taylor which is why I suggested swapping trez for gilbert.

Slow build up means the other team are more likely to press. If they press, we are more likely to make mistakes.

Sometimes a slow build up is required but doing it the majority of the time is far more effort and work because the other team have time to nullify.

Defend from the front is what we used to be good at, with 1 player isolated it's never going to happen so we either accept we are going to be pressed back in pretty much every game or we change things around which involves either formation or players or both.

Bearing in mind Smith has a set formation it only leaves a change in player to get the best from his system.

good summary.

I think our main issues are down the flanks....just generalising....not forthright enough for me as a 4... both full backs and wingers.

I accept the bit about Taylor and Elmo doing ok.....but we need more than ok.

We need aggression from those positions.....Aggression in the tackle, particularly in the early exchanges of a game i.e " let them know you are there".......and in the raiding it needs to be with aggression, not trepidation and indecision that we seem to get.

Aggression is contagious.....we need our players to show more of it.

Edited August 19, 2019 by TRO

[Guest av1]

On 18/08/2019 at 10:00, brummybloke said:

? Not seen anyone say Elmo was "shit" ? 

Unless your just posting for effect ?

Nor me. Elmo like Taylor has been solid. I really do believe that both Targget and Guilbert will ultimately offer the team so much more due to the limitations of Taylor and Elmo going forward which invariably isolates the wingers, but just because i want them replaced doesn't mean they are shit. 

[Keyblade]

I love Elmo. He's a solid RB and has a great cross on him. But we'd benefit from a more dynamic full-back which Guilbert definitely seems to be. It's not a slight on Elmo at all. The same goes for Targett on the other side. We'd just be a better, more dynamic side with them in the team is all.

[Vive_La_Villa]

14 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I love Elmo. He's a solid RB and has a great cross on him. But we'd benefit from a more dynamic full-back which Guilbert definitely seems to be. It's not a slight on Elmo at all. The same goes for Targett on the other side. We'd just be a better, more dynamic side with them in the team is all.

Until we see them play. I hope it’s not the case but it could be that Guilbert was bought for the championship and Targett is not as good as the club thought?

[villalad21]

We had 22 shots against Bournemouth.

The fullbacks are not the reason why we are not scoring goals. Abraham and Hourihane out of the team and we instantly take a huge amount of goals out of the team. That's the problem we are facing, we simply don't have enough natural goalscorers in our team.

Playing Targett and Guilbert is not the solution to this problem.

Edited August 19, 2019 by villalad21

[Keyblade]

7 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We had 22 shots against Bournemouth.

The fullbacks are not the reason why we are not scoring goals. Abraham and Hourihane out of the team and we instantly take a huge amount of goals out of the team. That's the problem we are facing, we simply don't have enough natural goalscorers in our team.

Playing Targett and Guilbert is not the solution to this problem.

With Targett and Guilbert in the team, our attacks would start much faster. With Taylor especially, the opposition defence has time to settle and block off any potential move down the left because he's too slow both physically and in his decision making. Elmo is more of a physical issue, as he tends to cross from deeper as he can't really run up and down the line anymore. Overlapping full-backs are a huge weapon in this league and we're sorely lacking in that department.

[villalad21]

12 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

With Targett and Guilbert in the team, our attacks would start much faster. With Taylor especially, the opposition defence has time to settle and block off any potential move down the left because he's too slow both physically and in his decision making. Elmo is more of a physical issue, as he tends to cross from deeper as he can't really run up and down the line anymore. Overlapping full-backs are a huge weapon in this league and we're sorely lacking in that department.

Targett looked pretty poor in Pre Season.

Guilbert looked ok but bare in mind against weak opposition except Leipzig. Regardless it won't solve our issue which is a lack of natural goal scorers.

[LakotaDakota]

He is in the top 10 of the whole league for accurate crosses & key passes per game, Defensively he is top 25-50 on tackles,interceptions & clearances whilst having fewer fouls than most. His stats against bournemouth were better than just about every other player in the league for pass accuracy & chances created. Not his fault our forward line consists of people who are good at falling over and you wouldn't put money on them scoring if you put the ball on the goalline and gave them a 5 yard run up. sure Gulibert might be able to run a bit faster but i honestly can't seem him doing anything else significantly better than elmo

[villalad21]

6 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

He is in the top 10 of the whole league for accurate crosses & key passes per game, Defensively he is top 25-50 on tackles,interceptions & clearances whilst having fewer fouls than most. His stats against bournemouth were better than just about every other player in the league for pass accuracy & chances created. Not his fault our forward line consists of people who are good at falling over and you wouldn't put money on them scoring if you put the ball on the goalline and gave them a 5 yard run up. sure Gulibert might be able to run a bit faster but i honestly can't seem him doing anything else significantly better than elmo

People just want to see Guilbert because he is new, that is all.

Doesn't matter how well Elmo plays i'm afraid. People on here just doesn't like Elmo probably because he remind them on Bruce.

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

People just want to see Guilbert because he is new, that is all.

Doesn't matter how well Elmo plays i'm afraid. People on here just doesn't like Elmo probably because he remind them on Bruce.

People have already explained why they want to see Guilbert and that's not it at all. You literally just made all of this up.

[AVTuco]

9 hours ago, Rob182 said:

 

& @weedman 

To be fair, it's all hope because Guilbert hasn't had a chance yet. People are right when they say that Guilbert looking good in pre-season doesn't count for much, but then again, I don't remember Elmo looking anywhere near the level that that Guilbert did against whichever League One teams we played in the 2018/19 pre-season.

It's true that Smith didn't think he was the answer against Spurs and Bournemouth, but then also, we don't know for what reason. Perhaps defensive solidity? Perhaps continuity of last season's team. Maybe it's just for the Trez/Elmo connection down the right?

He's also choosing Taylor over our new £13m defender as well. Again, we don't know the reasons for that, but the excited kid in my wants to see both of the new lads.

I'm with you mate

 

[villalad21]

44 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

People have already explained why they want to see Guilbert and that's not it at all. You literally just made all of this up.

No i didn't. It just seems like it.

Elmo put in quality crosses on saturday and was solid defensively. People are judging Guilbert based on Pre Season against mostly weaker opposition. It all sounds like wishes and hopes just because he is new.

Elmo is playing really well and i see no reason to swap him out.