London Bridge Incident

[darrenm]

1 hour ago, PaulC said:

Sorry don't agree, he tried to use this terrible incident for his own political purposes, I think that's totally wrong under the circumstances

They agreed no campaigning until 7pm. May broke the embargo by campaigning in Downing Street in the morning.

[lapal_fan]

50 minutes ago, andyjsg said:

Not quite!

i understand that YOU criticised her for her wording and what she said very clearly is that these nutters want to split the west and Islam and that these nutters say they are not compatible and then she follows to say that they are perverting their religion for their own gains. I honestly don't see how anybody would see this as a red rag to the "racist" bull, when it's quite the opposite. Hence why I have suggested anybody who sees it the other way wether it's to strengthen their already ignorant racist thoughts or a political stick to beat her with isn't very smart.

It feels like somebody being shown one of those ink plot drawings and asking what they see and whilst it's quite obviously a flowery they reply "two monkeys humping".

 

Okay, I'm sure we won't see any negativity (on top of what we already have seen) to the Muslim community in the coming period of time.

My argument is that it isn't very clear.. (it is to me though, just incase you still don't understand what I'm saying).

[darrenm]

1 minute ago, darrenm said:

They agreed no campaigning until 7pm. May broke the embargo by campaigning in Downing Street in the morning.

 

[colhint]

They did no such thing. Show me an agreement, From any other party. The Guardian listed each parties approach. 

Total fake news

[maqroll]

What turns my stomach is the fact that there must be at the very least hundreds of people in England right now who are celebrating this sh*t behind closed doors. This is a very new and confusing sort of battle for Britain. How do you "defeat" this menace?

[peterms]

 

[andyjsg]

6 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

Okay, I'm sure we won't see any negativity (on top of what we already have seen) to the Muslim community in the coming period of time.

My argument is that it isn't very clear.. (it is to me though, just incase you still don't understand what I'm saying).

And my argument is that what she has said in the part of the statement you highlighted is very clear and I still don't get why you used it to criticise her, you were suggesting that her poor wording was inciting hatred from the racists. Surely if you understand it then what she has said there is okay and neither confirms or denies a racist's bias. So to answer your first part, of course there will be negativity towards the community and it's awful, but has nothing to do with May's statement.

[Rugeley Villa]

Allegedly one of the attackers was in a jihadi documentary last year and has been in several videos on YouTube. I watched the documentary in question last year. This is where we need to come down hard because these people are openly expressing their violent views and then this happens. Anyone that supports or is involved in anyway should be off the streets or taken out, simple.

[Seat68]

47 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Allegedly one of the attackers was in a jihadi documentary last year and has been in several videos on YouTube. I watched the documentary in question last year. This is where we need to come down hard because these people are openly expressing their violent views and then this happens. Anyone that supports or is involved in anyway should be off the streets or taken out, simple.

the channel 4 one? 

[Rugeley Villa]

2 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

the channel 4 one? 

Think so yes. It's where they are laughing at the beheading videos in the cafe.

[hippo]

Enough is enough strikes me a stupid thing to say. Its sort of seems like 'well some terrorism is acceptable - but this has gone to far now' 

I wish people would stop coming up with one sentence solutions - 'shut the borders' etc - this isn't an easy problem to solve. Indeed how you stop people using van and breadknives  as weapons ? - not easily.

 

[Rugeley Villa]

Just now, hippo said:

Enough is enough strikes me a stupid thing to say. Its sort of seems like 'well some terrorism is acceptable - but this has gone to far now' 

I wish people would stop coming up with one sentence solutions - 'shut the borders' etc - this isn't an easy problem to solve. Indeed how you stop people using van and breadknives  as weapons ? - not easily.

 

It's the kind of thing your average joe would say on the street, enough is enough now. It's got nothing to do with borders as most educated people know. These people are already here, British born, British bred. It's going to take decades of hard work. How do you change thoughts and ideologies of a religion that's been around since the days of jesus. A lot of work and changes are needed in the Muslim world and also western governments. Foreign policy needs to change. we need to get out of bed with the Saudis,but what consequences that would bring I don't know, but we cannot keep burying our head in the sand over them. There are parts of the uk that are countries within countries, so those borders need opening up. 

[omariqy]

1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Allegedly one of the attackers was in a jihadi documentary last year and has been in several videos on YouTube. I watched the documentary in question last year. This is where we need to come down hard because these people are openly expressing their violent views and then this happens. Anyone that supports or is involved in anyway should be off the streets or taken out, simple.

Yup and again they were reported to the police by people in their own community. 

[omariqy]

10 hours ago, snowychap said:

That they were all pretty shit pieces of legislation?

So many pieces of legislation have passed but none of them have worked really. Maybe in part but largely unsuccessful. 

[LondonLax]

12 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

It's the kind of thing your average joe would say on the street, enough is enough now. It's got nothing to do with borders as most educated people know. These people are already here, British born, British bred. It's going to take decades of hard work. How do you change thoughts and ideologies of a religion that's been around since the days of jesus. A lot of work and changes are needed in the Muslim world and also western governments. Foreign policy needs to change. we need to get out of bed with the Saudis,but what consequences that would bring I don't know, but we cannot keep burying our head in the sand over them. There are parts of the uk that are countries within countries, so those borders need opening up. 

Just being a pedant, but the religion was not around in the days of Jesus. It started 600 years later. Otherwise carry on

Edited June 5, 2017 by LondonLax

[peterms]

7 minutes ago, omariqy said:

So many pieces of legislation have passed but none of them have worked really. Maybe in part but largely unsuccessful. 

 

[Chindie]

12 minutes ago, omariqy said:

So many pieces of legislation have passed but none of them have worked really. Maybe in part but largely unsuccessful. 

Presumably useful for other things though.

[Jareth]

Possibly the most sensible description of where we are I've ever read:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/05/london-attack-isis-claims-responsibility-victims-named-live-updates

Theresa May’s “enough is enough” response to the attack risks making the extremist threat worse, according Richard Barrett a former director of global counter-terrorism at MI6.

Writing for the Guardian he says:

The prime minister must be careful in equating terrorism with Islamist extremism. Whatever comment she added about the true values of Islam, this juxtaposition of terms is too simple a description for such a complex phenomenon: May’s use of words plays to the binary division that terrorists try to create between Muslims and the rest. In talking to officials in Muslim-majority countries about common approaches to terrorism, or to individual Muslims about defeating the terrorist narrative, I have almost always found criticism of the way the west approaches the problem in two areas.

First, officials complain that western governments tolerate extremist speech directed against these Muslim-majority countries because it does not contravene the law and falls under freedom of expression. This may be true, but it is totally defensible. The protection of individual freedoms, and the rule of law, are fundamental to a healthy and united society.

Second, they complain that western counter-terrorist policies in conflict zones are often counterproductive, especially when bombs and drones kill civilians. This is also true, but is far less defensible. Military action is not an appropriate response to the terror threat unless it forms part of a far wider strategy that takes into account the various drivers of extremism. The strategic counter-terrorist objectives of our military involvement in Syriaare as obscure as they were in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Genie]

Watching the concert last night which was mainly a collaboration of British and US artists I did find the messages about "love not hate" and "peace" a little uncomfortable when I assume 'our' militaries are still bombing the shit out of the Middle East on a daily basis...

[Jareth]

Just now, Genie said:

Watching the concert last night which was mainly a collaboration of British and US artists I did find the messages about "love not hate" and "peace" a little uncomfortable when I assume 'our' militaries are still bombing the shit out of the Middle East on a daily basis...

I watched it too, I was welling up... in my pants, I love a bit of Grande.