London Bridge Incident

[mottaloo]

1 hour ago, PompeyVillan said:

What makes me laugh about these Jihadi nutjobs is their lives and jobs.

 

The first thing that comes to my mind is "yeah, d1ckheads - you were shit shovelling the streets of hackney on the bins....yeah, that's REALLY gangsta !"

But then straight after i thought "sleeper cell". Assimilate in to the local community, go under the radar. Do your evil deed and then see subsequent tv interviews with his neighbours saying "fck me, he seemed such an ordinary bloke, a bit quiet but would wave good morning to me when i took out the recyclables on a wednesday !"

it's depressing the sh1t out of me right now 

[mykeyb]

41 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

I've said this before. A lot of them would never last living under proper strict Islamic law.  

There is a certain irony to this comment as we are talking about suicide bombers and their ilk....

[Rugeley Villa]

4 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

There is a certain irony to this comment as we are talking about suicide bombers and their ilk....

Well that's one way of avoiding living under strict Islamic law 

[omariqy]

If they actually had a good grasp of Islamic jurisprudence then they wouldn't be committing such atrocities. D*ckheads.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

1 hour ago, mottaloo said:

The first thing that comes to my mind is "yeah, d1ckheads - you were shit shovelling the streets of hackney on the bins....yeah, that's REALLY gangsta !"

But then straight after i thought "sleeper cell". Assimilate in to the local community, go under the radar. Do your evil deed and then see subsequent tv interviews with his neighbours saying "fck me, he seemed such an ordinary bloke, a bit quiet but would wave good morning to me when i took out the recyclables on a wednesday !"

it's depressing the sh1t out of me right now 

One of the attackers :

- has been filmed with the ISIS flag,
- has been a part of a group whose leader has been arrested and sent to jail, 
- has been banned from going to mosques,
- has been reported to authorities multiple times

There is no more obvious threat, that's not a sleeper cell. Everyone else will be less obvious. 

[Genie]

7 minutes ago, BG_Villa_Fan said:

One of the attackers :

- has been filmed with the ISIS flag,
- has been a part of a group whose leader has been arrested and sent to jail, 
- has been banned from going to mosques,
- has been reported to authorities multiple times

There is no more obvious threat, that's not a sleeper cell. Everyone else will be less obvious. 

terrifying isn't it. The watch list exactly is that, watch (and no action).

[mottaloo]

Okay. I wasn't referring to specific individuals/incident in my previous post. 

[HanoiVillan]

3 hours ago, jon_c said:

I actually think they should broadcast Four Lions everytime there's an attack, so we can mock them for the nutjob dimwits they are. The true British way. 

Certainly this one attacker seems like a Four Lions early-draft character treatment. A pastry chef, had a child with a non-Muslim, acrimonious split, seems like she wouldn't let him visit the kid. 

[LakotaDakota]

1 hour ago, BG_Villa_Fan said:

One of the attackers :

- has been filmed with the ISIS flag,
- has been a part of a group whose leader has been arrested and sent to jail, 
- has been banned from going to mosques,
- has been reported to authorities multiple times

There is no more obvious threat, that's not a sleeper cell. Everyone else will be less obvious. 

Seems he also worked for london underground including westminster station....

 

 

[zak]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

terrifying isn't it. The watch list exactly is that, watch (and no action).

I agree its terrifying, it really is, but playing devils advocate:

 do you know no action was taken?

what action do you want to be taken?

[maqroll]

6 hours ago, BG_Villa_Fan said:

One of the attackers :

- has been filmed with the ISIS flag,
- has been a part of a group whose leader has been arrested and sent to jail, 
- has been banned from going to mosques,
- has been reported to authorities multiple times

There is no more obvious threat, that's not a sleeper cell. Everyone else will be less obvious. 

if an englishman in 1939 unfurled a nazi flag in hyde park, he'd be locked up for donkeys

 

[TrentVilla]

15 minutes ago, maqroll said:

if an englishman in 1939 unfurled a nazi flag in hyde park, he'd be locked up for donkeys

 

Actually they wouldn't, see the Black Shirts who were very active in that era right up until 1940 when they were broken up and members arrested.

[AVFC_Hitz]

44 minutes ago, maqroll said:

if an englishman in 1939 unfurled a nazi flag in hyde park, he'd be locked up for donkeys

 

The Daily Mail serialised Mein Kampf.

[maqroll]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

Actually they wouldn't, see the Black Shirts who were very active in that era right up until 1940 when they were broken up and members arrested.

right, so i was off by a year then

the point being, if anyone in the uk is flying the isis flag and promoting violent jihad against the uk, they should be arrested on the spot.

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, maqroll said:

the point being, if anyone in the uk is flying the isis flag and promoting violent jihad against the uk, they should be arrested on the spot.

I didn't disagree, I'm not Jeremy Corbyn.

[Rugeley Villa]

1 hour ago, maqroll said:

right, so i was off by a year then

the point being, if anyone in the uk is flying the isis flag and promoting violent jihad against the uk, they should be arrested on the spot.

Any involvement whatsoever, whether it be support on twitter or support in any shape or form they should be locked up or if they are not British citizens deported if possible. Two of the attackers last week should not of been walking the streets. The first attacker named was from a banned Islamist group who are responsible for a quarter of all attacks in the uk. It won't solve it but we need to really start coming down hard on these individuals and groups. They are using our freedom of speech against us and it's causing people to lose their lives. 

[Guest av1]

18 hours ago, Genie said:

terrifying isn't it. The watch list exactly is that, watch (and no action).

Seems the 3rd attacker was on a EU wide watch list. 

BBC

 One of the London Bridge attackers was able to enter the UK, despite being placed on an EU-wide watch list.

 

[TrentVilla]

Looks like there is an 8th victim, they now think a missing French chap ended up in the river. 

[mjmooney]

Quote

I'm a British Muslim man of the same age as the London and Manchester terrorists – and I know why we turned out so different

The answer to preventing extremism is encouraging real education about Islam from a young age, and focusing on the Saudi-funded Wahhabi mosques where some literature promotes dangerous ideals

London Mayor Sadiq Khan said 'You do not commit these disgusting acts in my name' during a vigil for the victims

I am the same age as Salman Abedi, the Manchester suicide bomber, and almost the same age as the recently named London Bridge terrorists; I also profess to be of the same faith. Thankfully, these are the only two things we have in common. As well as studying medicine at university, I currently serve as the president of the UK Ahmadiyya Muslim Students Association. I spend a lot of my time working to organise interfaith dialogues and peace conferences. So how exactly did we turn out so different? And could knowing the answer to this help reduce the numbers of young people being brainwashed into extremism?

The primary answer to this is education. Even in childhood, I always asked questions about my religion – and as I grew up, I had access to imams and elders ready to answer them. I was free to challenge them, to ask the toughest and most sensitive questions about the most “controversial” aspects of Islam.

Through this process I learnt that Islam teaches there is no compulsion in religion, that taking even a single life is equivalent to killing to the whole of mankind, and that saving a life is equivalent to saving the whole of humanity. I learnt that the concept of jihad is not about spreading religion through force, but about struggling against one’s own evil desires in order to reform oneself and become a pure-hearted, decent individual.

I learnt that the Prophet Mohammed taught that loyalty to one’s nation of residence is part of one’s faith, reinforced by the fact that at least once a year at our religious functions we publicly make the pledge to serve our country whenever required. I learnt about the role of charity in Islam, and what the Qur’an calls the “steep ascent” – the true means of attaining nearness to God: “It is the freeing of a slave, or feeding in a day of hunger, an orphan near of kin, or a poor man lying in the dust.”

I learnt that Islam is not a completely pacifistic religion, and there do exist verses about warfare – however, this is always strictly defensive. The Prophet Mohammed was faced with persecution from his own people for over a decade and yet only engaged in battle after he had migrated, for the purpose of protecting not only Islam, but the freedom of conscience for those of all faiths, which was being threatened at time.

More generally, I learnt through the responses I got that everything in my faith was in harmony with human nature, and that nothing was dogmatic or unreasonable or a threat to society. I learnt that a strong grounding in Islamic knowledge is in fact protective from radicalisation.

Defeating extremist ideology therefore lies to a large degree in the hands of Muslim imams and scholars. If they are able to educate their congregations from an early age about the true peaceful nature of Islam, then there is no threat that these individuals will become radicalised in their later life.

Though this is an ideological battle, our Government can help with this too. A study conducted by an Islamic Studies expert at Newcastle University in 2007 found that around a quarter of UK mosques were found to have malignant and hateful literature. That literature’s publication and distribution was all linked to the Saudi Arabian government, and many of the mosques were Saudi-run. Wahhabism, the type of Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia, is an extremely severe form of Islam which is often cited by Isis as an inspiration.

We must stop allowing Wahhabi mosques to be built in the UK, and do more to root out extremist preachers already here. One way of doing this, as mentioned by a prominent Muslim leader, is to monitor mosques, particularly Friday sermons, to weed out potential threats. The most efficient way of preventing radicalisation is by removing from our nation hateful clerics who have influence over young minds.

Over the coming days and weeks, I and my Ahmadi Muslim friends will be attending vigils and commemorations for the recent attacks wearing T-shirts and holding banners with messages of peace and love. Perhaps I will talk to others there and shed a tear with them for the victims. Perhaps amidst our grieving hearts and hurt souls, I will be able to exchange words of hope with people on witnessing the unity and pluralism that these atrocities brought out in our society.

Perhaps I will encounter people whose views on Islam are forged by the terrorists, and perhaps they will look at me and my friends, Birtish Muslims of a similar age to the extremists, and ask: “How did you turn out so different?” And with a smile we will tell them. 
 

Independent

Saudis? Who'da thought it, eh? 

Edited June 7, 2017 by mjmooney

[This Could Be Rotterdam]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

Independent

Saudis? Who'da thought it, eh? 

It genuinely angers me that the media don't focus on this. For me, it should have been a key quesiton of every politician interviewed in the campaign.