StefanAVFC Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/home-office-terrorist-funding-report-saudia-arabia-focus-not-publish-conservatives-government-a7766381.html Quote Theresa May with Saudi Crown Prince Muhammad bin Nayef in Riyadh on Wednesday EPA An investigation into the foreign funding of extremist Islamist groups may never be published, the Home Office has admitted. The inquiry commissioned by David Cameron, was launched as part of a deal with the Liberal Democrats in December 2015, in exchange for the party supporting the extension of British airstrikes against Isis into Syria. But although it was due to be published in the spring of 2016, it has not been completed and may never be made public due to its "sensitive" contents. It is thought to focus on Saudi Arabia, which the UK recently approved £3.5bn worth of arms export licences to. This is why I can't get my head around people being happy with the Tories snooping in their private lives? We're expected to just trust them, that their snooping is in the name of 'national security' yet they're very happy to withhold information about where the funding of these extremist groups comes from? We sell weapons at an astonishing rate to the Saudis. Seven years of this government and they still use attacks like last night to attempt to smear the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/home-office-terrorist-funding-report-saudia-arabia-focus-not-publish-conservatives-government-a7766381.html This is why I can't get my head around people being happy with the Tories snooping in their private lives? We're expected to just trust them, that their snooping is in the name of 'national security' yet they're very happy to withhold information about where the funding of these extremist groups comes from? We sell weapons at an astonishing rate to the Saudis. Seven years of this government and they still use attacks like last night to attempt to smear the opposition. To me, that's a different issue entirely, and probably one that this country needs to resolve alongside many other issues we have. I wouldn't care about giving up my privacy over modern means of communication, but as a caveat, I'd want it governed correctly. In the same way that some countries manage a census; all information given/taken can be used by the particular department that has been given authority to use it, but any underhand use or releasing of info that shouldn't be released is met by an automatic sentencing of jailtime to the person guilty of breaking that trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Rob182 said: My line in the sand would be post. I honestly wouldn't care if my internet browsing history/ Whatsapp messages/ Facebook messages/ Twitter DMs/ phone calls were monitored, if it prevented (or went some way to preventing) innocent people being killed. Life > Privacy (tin hat time) How can you guarantee that everyone who now has access to your personal information has good motives? It's putting an awful amount of faith and trust in a government that withholds information about where extremist groups get their funding from, while also selling billions of £'s worth of arms to Saudi Arabia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 As I said above, the integrity of the people in charge is another issue. Like many solutions people offer, there will always be a "but how _____" and "what if ____". These are things I wish that we could iron out in our country, but it feels like an uphill battle. If someone was to ask me my solution, my first idea would be to track people down by monitoring modern communication. There would be strict laws in place, around how the government (or 'department' in charge of it) can use the info, and what the consequences will be if the information is used wrongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Awol Posted June 4, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: We need to do more within the Muslim community. As Colhint says, get the Muslim council more involved. Get into mosques where these people are being radicalised. Ask members of the Muslim community to be more vigilant of those, often young, Muslims who are in danger of being radicalised. That's called the prevent strategy and is campaigned against by luminaries such as Andy Burnham, the University attended by the Manchester bomber, and guess who else doesn't support it? *gasp* the Muslim Council of Britain. Come out and strongly condemn those who do these attacks. Did you read the posts giving numbers from last year's ICM polls of the Muslim Community? 2/3rds wouldn't even report someone involved in terrorism. Get those high up in the Muslim faith to excommunicate those running off to fight with ISIS; if they care and it changes their behaviour, then great. If not, then it shows it wasn't about being a Muslim anyway. Oh dear, excommunication in Islam is called Takfir, it's a key plank of ISIS ideology. Next! Bring our police numbers back up to where they were before the Tories cut them. Give our intelligence services the resource they need to continue monitoring these people of interest. 75,000 surveillance officers is what it would take to only watch those assessed as most dangerous 24/7. Or they could focus on electronic communication to make up for lack of numbers. Tell me again about that police state you're worried about? Stop publicising these attacks - these people who commit these attacks are insane. Completely insane. By showing the world the damage they caused and announcing their names, they have achieved what they wanted. Which encourages others to do the same. People slaughtered in Central London and we need a media black out in an age of social/global media. Very practical. Stop meddling in the Middle East. We are fighting ISIS, should it simply be left to others or should they be allowed to form their terror Caliphate? It isn't the sole factor in the spate of attacks, but there is definitely some link. Poland has zero little terrorism. It has Schengen. It has a Muslim population of 0.1% When you're talking about Islamist terrorism that makes a difference, in the same way people don't get attacked by sharks in the desert. Nothing would stop a Muslim of Germany nationality driving a van through the old town in Warsaw. Yet, it doesn't happen. Why is this? Why bother when there are so many targets in Germany, an existing network of radicals and a large Muslim population to hide amongst? My bold. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 31 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Stop meddling in the Middle East. It isn't the sole factor in the spate of attacks, but there is definitely some link. Poland has zero/little terrorism. It has Schengen. Nothing would stop a Muslim of Germany nationality driving a van through the old town in Warsaw. Yet, it doesn't happen. Why is this? I'm not sure that Poland's largely racist attitude towards immigration from the Muslim world is something to be proud of, or aspire to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, Risso said: I'm not sure that Poland's largely racist attitude towards immigration from the Muslim world is something to be proud of, or aspire to. I'm not proud of it, nor do I aspire towards it. I deplore the current government in Poland. They're worse than the Tories by some distance. They have monthly services for Smolensk still now, years and years later. Edited June 4, 2017 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turvontour Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 5 hours ago, lapal_fan said: It's pretty exhausting being pissed off at these events happening all the time. My wife won't go to see Ricky Gervais with me now.. and I totally understand her worry about it. I wrote a big long post in the Manchester attack thread about being angry with the waste of life. I'm just as angry now, I've had some pretty jarring thoughts skim through there until rationale has caught up and I've "talked myself down". As has been said, you can't stop these incidents happening. The only common denominator from these recent attacks is a religion called Islam (unfortunately for all honest, good Muslims out there). The perps don't (didnt) know each other, they're just nutcases who are becoming more emboldened and their own death seemingly doesn't even worry them.. If your actions lead to your own death and you're still not concerned.. what the hell can anyone do to prevent what you want to act out? The scary thing is, is that the really ISN'T any answer to it. We have good services to try and prevent these things happening, but without giving up every freedom we have, a few will spill through. People will become angry, bitter and you can almost see vigilante groups being formed should this keep happening. Just sick of being on edge now. What if? what if? whatever.. I'm in a similar position where my other half doesnt want us to go into Bham with our children, unless we have to. Its made me think, its probably only around 1% of the UK, geographically speaking, thats under threat of attack. If we say UK is 100,000 square miles, its only going to be tops 500 square miles that is going to be targeted. Take say 10-15 biggest cities and say an average of 25-50 square miles around absolute centre of each? Obviously bigger catchment for London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, turvontour said: I'm in a similar position where my other half doesnt want us to go into Bham with our children, unless we have to. Its made me think, its probably only around 1% of the UK, geographically speaking, thats under threat of attack. If we say UK is 100,000 square miles, its only going to be tops 500 square miles that is going to be targeted. Take say 10-15 biggest cities and say an average of 25-50 square miles around absolute centre of each? Obviously bigger catchment for London. Even if we was having 1 attack every week or even 1 every day then chances of you getting caught up in it are slim. That still does not put our minds at ease though. I mentioned about 2-3 year ago that I was avoiding the German market because I felt uncomfortable going and I got laughed at and got completely blasted for having those concerns. Guess what? I still have those concerns and it's starting to look like those concerns were valid. Never felt comfortable in Paris a few months back and when me and my wife went to a concert earlier in the year we both said it won't be long before they target an arena. now I'm still living my life how I always have done but it's naturally in the back of your minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 57 minutes ago, bobzy said: I would hazard a guess that it depends on what they've done. I should imagine (I have no figures) that a sizeable amount of people who have gone to Syria/Libya/Iraq/wherever and returned to the UK have been arrested for terrorist acts. Is this tolerance? I also imagine there are people who have left the UK with the ambition to fight for ISIS and have since realised they do not want to do so, and have returned (I assume this is a minority of people). What do we do then? Just kill them off in case? It is a criminal offence to carry a knife in this country, the police don't wait for them to actually stab someone before it becomes a crime. If these people travel to Syria with the intention of fighting for isis, who cares what they actually did when they were there? I really can't believe this is actually up for debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted June 4, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Risso said: Q.32 Recently, four school girls from London travelled to Syria to join Islamic State. They are believed to have been recruited to become "jihadi brides". Can you understand why school girls like these would be attracted to become jihadi brides? Base: All respondents Roughly a quarter of respondents said yes. Not "do you approve?", but "can you understand why?". I would 100% answer "yes" to that myself. It's because they are teenage girls. Their heads are full of romantic fantasies. They don't think they are going to Syria to be raped and used as domestic slaves, they think they are going to marry handsome warriors and fulfil God's work. Most kids have a bit more nous, even in a strict religious culture, but some will always be gullible airheads, in any culture. They need protection for their own good. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chakal Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 42 minutes ago, Risso said: I'm not sure that Poland's largely racist attitude towards immigration from the Muslim world is something to be proud of, or aspire to. Racist? whats "racist" in the fact that we simply don't want such incidents like these in England or France? Why we "have to" tolerate muslim immigration? Poland didn't have colonies like UK. Besides we have a lot of immigrants from Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 There we go..... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted June 4, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2017 One thing to keep in mind is that the incident in Vauxhall last night wasn't linked to terrorism - it was someone on a Saturday night stabbing someone else on a Saturday night somewhere in the UK. It's worth remembering that whilst terrorism can be scary and it's horrible to think that there are people out there plotting these things, you're still much more likely to be stabbed by a mugger or an angry drunk bloke on seven pints on a Saturday night just about anywhere in the UK than you are by an Islamic terrorist. There. That's comforting isn't it? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Awol said: I agree, but apparently they are free to murder, maim and rape as long as they do it to foreigners somewhere else and we watch them when they come home. I cant decide if that's unintentionally racist or just chop slappingly dumb, but it is government policy.... because they tolerate extremism. I have to agree, and I don't really understand government policy in this area. I really do think we need to be tougher on these individuals, as a group. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 21 one of the injured are in critical condition, unfortunately the death toll is likely to rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Awol Posted June 4, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2017 For those arguing about the need to reverse police cuts, watch this. Spoiler You're right. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, Awol said: For those arguing about the need to reverse police cuts, watch this. Hide contents You're right. Disgraceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Yet Boris has the audacity to talk about how Corbyn wouldn't keep us safe, right after the attack. Look at your own government you rat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Can't say I'm keen on the idea of armed police performing their duties, towards the end of a 16 hour shift. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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