Rugeley Villa Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I said a few months back we need to start monitoring mosques or certain ones and I got jumped on. We need to get strict with Saudi Arabia and getting moderate/normal Muslims on board. The people who follow Islam have more chance at solving this than western governments do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 1 hour ago, mjmooney said: Independent Saudis? Who'da thought it, eh? Playing devils advocate. Whilst I agree with pretty much everything the guy says not all Wahabbi or Saudi funded mosques will be breeding ground for extremists. Some will be no doubt but the vast majority will be just normal mosques. There are plenty of clerics who are based in Saudi or from Saudi that are completely normal people. There is a danger that again your marginalise a whole group of people for the actions of a few. However, saying that the extreme interpretation does stem from that particular branch of Islam so it does need to be tackled. I am just saying that just because someone may be Wahabbi or from a mosque funded by Saudi does not automatically make them dangerous. The majority of the time quite the opposite. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 7, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: I said a few months back we need to start monitoring mosques or certain ones and I got jumped on. We need to get strict with Saudi Arabia and getting moderate/normal Muslims on board. The people who follow Islam have more chance at solving this than western governments do. You were if I recall suggesting the routine and widespread monitoring of mosques following some raids in Germany. I said then that was a bad idea and I still think its a bad idea. We shouldn't be affraid to take action against mosques or individuals connected with them should their actions warrant it but the whole of Islam shouldn't be subject to widespread monitoring. We need to work with those in the Muslim community (and they are the majority) who don't want these people in their mosques and communities. We need their help and I suspect they need the help of the authorities. There is no answer to any of this but the pathway to making things better has to be built upon better relationships and cooperation rather than greater suspicion and resentment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 27 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: You were if I recall suggesting the routine and widespread monitoring of mosques following some raids in Germany. I said then that was a bad idea and I still think its a bad idea. We shouldn't be affraid to take action against mosques or individuals connected with them should their actions warrant it but the whole of Islam shouldn't be subject to widespread monitoring. We need to work with those in the Muslim community (and they are the majority) who don't want these people in their mosques and communities. We need their help and I suspect they need the help of the authorities. There is no answer to any of this but the pathway to making things better has to be built upon better relationships and cooperation rather than greater suspicion and resentment. I agree, we should not have the whole of Islam under suspicion but monitoring certain mosques by whatever means necessary is a good idea. I'm sure normal law abiding Muslims would not object to the removal of troublesome characters from their mosque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, mjmooney said: Independent Saudis? Who'da thought it, eh? A good article indeed, albeit written by an Ahmadiyaa Muslim, a branch of the religion that is not accepted by the majority of Muslim countries. It's like a Jehova's Witness claiming he knows how to fix Christianity - the other Christians wouldn't give a toss. The Ahmadi Muslims congregate yearly at a conference yearly in Alton, Hampshire, they are great, peaceful and progressive Muslims. Probably about 400 years ahead of the Sunni and Shiite branches. The problem with us pointing a finger generally at a whole religion like Islam, or someone responding for a whole religion like the above article, is that the religion is about 13 or 14 different versions of one thing. We need loud voices from Sunni and Shiite leaders - as well as the Ahmadi branch. There are always going to be someone who has a different interpretation of the Koran - and that is most of the problem with all religions based on something written centuries ago. Edited June 7, 2017 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, magnkarl said: A good article indeed, albeit written by an Ahmadiyaa Muslim, a branch of the religion that is not accepted by the majority of Muslim countries. It's like a Jehova's Witness claiming he knows how to fix Christianity - the other Christians wouldn't give a toss. The Ahmadi Muslims congregate at a conference yearly in Alton, Hampshire, they are great, peaceful and progressive Muslims. Probably about 400 years ahead of the Sunni and Shiite branches. The problem with us pointing a finger generally at a whole religion like Islam, or someone responding for a whole religion like the above article, is that the religion is about 13 or 14 different versions of one thing. We need loud voices from Sunni and Shiite leaders - as well as the Ahmadi branch. There are always going to be someone who has a different interpretation of the Koran - and that is most of the problem with all religions. So basically they won't have a voice in the Islamic world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said: So basically they won't have a voice in the Islamic world. To some extent more moderate Muslims probably would listen to an Ahmadi. However we have to bear in mind that most Ahmadis are in Europe/America because their religion was founded in India and they emigrated early to England as part of the Empire, and then Europe from here. They've been integrated in Western Society for a much longer period, while at the same time accepting debate and openness in their religion. The relative peace in India/Pakistan crossed with liberties in the Western hemisphere has made it into a progressive, modern religion. For example there are no Ahmadi Muslims in Iran, Iraq, Saudi-Arabia or any of the states on the Arabian peninsula. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Yup good point about Ahmadi muslims. Although most sunni and shiite Muslims would agree with what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 7 hours ago, magnkarl said: A good article indeed, albeit written by an Ahmadiyaa Muslim, a branch of the religion that is not accepted by the majority of Muslim countries. It's like a Jehova's Witness claiming he knows how to fix Christianity - the other Christians wouldn't give a toss. The Ahmadi Muslims congregate yearly at a conference yearly in Alton, Hampshire, they are great, peaceful and progressive Muslims. Probably about 400 years ahead of the Sunni and Shiite branches. The problem with us pointing a finger generally at a whole religion like Islam, or someone responding for a whole religion like the above article, is that the religion is about 13 or 14 different versions of one thing. We need loud voices from Sunni and Shiite leaders - as well as the Ahmadi branch. There are always going to be someone who has a different interpretation of the Koran - and that is most of the problem with all religions based on something written centuries ago. Even the accusation someone is an Ahmadi can get them killed in Pakistan. Speaking of which there is probably more radicalisation coming out of Deobandi run mosques in the UK than from Wahhabi ones (Deobandi beliefs are the religious inspiration for the Afghan and Pakistani Taleban, as well various Pakistani based militant groups). The Glasweigian shop keeper murdered by a salafist last year for wishing Christians happy Easter on Faceache was an Ahmadi. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 CCTV has now appeared, no pissing about, police out of the car & firing immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Grim seeing that lad getting stabbed just before the police take them down. Like a pack of wild dogs, the bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Pretty ruthless by the police. I like how the driver was so determined to stop the attackers that he didn't even put the handbrake on the car when he got out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted June 7, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted June 7, 2017 Pretty harrowing, both in terms of seeing the chap attacked and because it gives you a real insight into what happened to the other victims. As for the Police, I commend them. Guns in hand or not, they still put themselves in harms way without a moments hesitation. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Yep, well done, get there get out and put an end to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Some special kinds of divs: Quote Apology after wardens put parking tickets on cars in London Bridge cordon Transport for London has apologised for issuing parking fines to motorists who had to abandon their cars following the terrorist attack at London Bridge. The operator said sorry for its “insensitive mistake” after penalty charge notices were handed out in Borough high street as police began removing the cordon on Wednesday morning. A notice was visible on the windscreen of an Audi on the street by the afternoon. The fines, which can be up to £130, will be cancelled, a TfL spokesman said. He said: “We unreservedly apologise for our insensitive mistake. These fines should never have been issued and will all be immediately cancelled.” It is understood there will be wardens in the area for the rest of the week but no cars that have been parked within the police cordon will be fined. ...more on link 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Can we just take white vans off the street ? - that would give us lots of additional bonuses as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Wow, that CCTV is harrowing. Do we know the distribution of deaths yet? Were they all killed in the van attack or were some killed in the ensuing knife rampage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Have to say watching that, the police get a lot of criticism but this video just shows how hard and good they are at their work. Well done the MET for keeping us safe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 8, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 8, 2017 17 hours ago, Awol said: Grim seeing that lad getting stabbed just before the police take them down. He does appear to get up after the police have killed the attackers though. Hopefully for him he survived. He could be the luckiest guy involved if he did, as he'd almost certainly have died if the police hadn't turned up at that exact moment, and especially considering how the police got there (if witnesses can be believed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will87 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40189916 I'm not sure why this isn't being considered terrorism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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