Popular Post Awol Posted June 4, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just now, bobzy said: We don't tolerate it in the first place - so, no, it would be (yet another) lie. Yeah we do. 350-400 Isis fighters have been allowed back into the country, that's tolerating extremism. Mosques are exposed for harbouring hate preachers on a fairly regular basis, nothing happens. That's tolerating extremism. Marches are held in towns like Luton where hundreds of people march preaching that the UK, democracy, police, non believers etc can go to hell. That's tolerating extremism. These aren't lies, they are examples of the State tolerating extremism. To be honest I don't believe May that the UK establishment will suddenly change its spots, but say they don't currently tolerate extremism is laughable. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 So allowing people to travel to Syria and cut peoples heads off fighting for isis, and then allowing them to return to the uk is not being to tolerant of extremism? Instead May has set a dangerous precedent, and has effectively justified attacks and hatred on Muslims? Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just now, StefanAVFC said: Answer the question. You've said you're happy for people to monitor your internet. So what's your line in the sand, in the name of 'national security'? If it got worse than it is now which I believe it will then anything that will increase the security of this country and also other countries. Do you put trust in security forces and government or put trust in that the lions of allah will get bored and just stop. I think I'd go with our security forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: People who don't want to have their usage tracked will make sure they're not. I would imagine this is the case, I doubt they all had contract phones packed with contents and messages when they were searched today for example. I would say that once an an attack is arranged they don't need mobiles as it is set to go it's probably going to go no matter what, that's the genius of the fragmented and seemingly unconnected cells terrorist cells currently at play. As you say they will on a day to day basis they will endevour to be untraceable and in the weeks and days leading up to an attack and well instructed cell might disapear completely for a short space of time before carrying out a "Spectacular" to use an IRA phrase from the past. Whatever they do in this specific time frame I can assure "Mijn Vrouw May" that snooping around and the inherent costs attached to that are not going to find people like last night, they are not going to be found at their Nan's house waiting for a Pizza to be delivered a few days before an attack all playing on the PlayStation logged in as "T3rrIST1$" 2 and 3. Just no going to happen love. You would be better off asking for volunteers from the Muslim community to be tasked with being the eyes and ears within these micro communities, either public known or not. If it's going to be killed (these acts of terror) then logically the best way is to destroy it from the inside and the best way long term for these communities would be to maybe get on board with something like that ((I don't see any other way to do this actually, it's a bit like a alcoholic or a gambler(it sounds a bit bad that but its not meant too), a small part of them is not working correctly but that individual alone is the only one who can kill it dead at the end of the day) Also, someone said earlier we should charge their families but this would ultimately be counter productive at this stage?)) Imagine if community X identified suspects Y and Z from information delivered to them from concerned members of said community and stopped A and possibly saved the lives of %%%% people, it would be brilliant and addictive hopefully. The community would be heroes, we would all be thankful and so it would go on. Flowers and candles only achieve so much. One can dream a dream. 1. What was the question again ? 2. Some people on here HATE my writing style and have told me so, so I apologize in advance at the end of the post Edited June 4, 2017 by Amsterdam_Neil_D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just now, Rugeley Villa said: If it got worse than it is now which I believe it will then anything that will increase the security of this country and also other countries. Do you put trust in security forces and government or put trust in that the lions of allah will get bored and just stop. I think I'd go with our security forces. For the third time, Where do you draw the line? Emails? Calls? Post? Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I'm sure the people of NK are chuffed with dear leader keeping them safe too Thread mark: Peak hyperbolic hysteria has arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 minute ago, av1 said: So allowing people to travel to Syria and cut peoples heads off fighting for isis, and then allowing them to return to the uk is not being to tolerant of extremism? Presumably, since you have the data and statistics to back this up, the people returning are being watched and therefore we're not turning a blind eye and being tolerant? 2 minutes ago, av1 said: Instead May has set a dangerous precedent, and has effectively justified attacks and hatred on Muslims? Unbelievable. You've just made the link without anyone saying it. That's exactly why it's dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just now, Awol said: Thread mark: Peak hyperbolic hysteria has arrived. Hah. Perhaps a disclaimer should have been placed at the end, indicating that I was, in no way, claiming that we will ever be like North Korea. It was a fairly obvious point, but I'll explain it for you. Giving up our freedom, because we're told it'll make us safer. It's the start of a slippery slope. It's what's going on in NK. The Dear Leader keeps us safe, you don't need your freedoms. Extreme example to make a point. And we're done. Hope that's clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: Please explain. You have people on our streets whether at protests or sat behind a stall on a street spouting violence and support of extremism. You have imams in mosques encouraging violence. You have shit all over the internet spouting violence and you also have religious schools spouting sectarian views and teaching kids at an early age to hate. You also have sharia law, not British law being practised in communities in this country. Sharia law does not = terrorism although some of it is very extreme, but it's not compatible to this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: Presumably, since you have the data and statistics to back this up, the people returning are being watched and therefore we're not turning a blind eye and being tolerant? Oh well they are being watched, i feel safer now. Dop some litter on the floor and you'll get knicked. Fight for isis and they might keep an eye on you incase you be naughty again. 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: You've just made the link without anyone saying it. That's exactly why it's dangerous. Really? 1 hour ago, lapal_fan said: May has effectively justified attacks and hatred on Muslims ("extremists").. she hasn't said it, but the people that needed that have got what they wanted. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: For the third time, Where do you draw the line? Emails? Calls? Post? Your thoughts? Ask me if and when we are in that situation. If it were to get that bad I'd have no problem with any of the above being monitored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, Awol said: Yeah we do. 350-400 Isis fighters have been allowed back into the country, that's tolerating extremism. Mosques are exposed for harbouring hate preachers on a fairly regular basis, nothing happens. That's tolerating extremism. Marches are held in towns like Luton where hundreds of people march preaching that the UK, democracy, police, non believers etc can go to hell. That's tolerating extremism. These aren't lies, they are examples of the State tolerating extremism. To be honest I don't believe May that the UK establishment will suddenly change its spots, but say they don't currently tolerate extremism is laughable. UK nationals returning to the UK isn't tolerating extremism. As I said before, I'm sure they're on watchlists - they aren't being tolerated. I agree to an extent on the hate preaching at mosques and in marches - much like that American family who picket veteran funerals etc. It's disgusting. But going against this would be going against freedom of speech, which is incredibly important for me. The same way that the hard right-wing get to air their lies in rags such as the Daily Mail and The Sun. As a nation, we're not tolerant of extremism. There's an unfortunate link (that av1 made) between "extremists" and "Muslims" which is why saying such things publicly is dangerous. "Well, if the government says we're being too lenient then, **** it, let's take the law into our own hands". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just now, Rugeley Villa said: If it were to get that bad I'd have no problem with any of the above being monitored. Jesus Christ. Begging for a despot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, av1 said: So allowing people to travel to Syria and cut peoples heads off fighting for isis, and then allowing them to return to the uk is not being to tolerant of extremism? Instead May has set a dangerous precedent, and has effectively justified attacks and hatred on Muslims? Unbelievable. Always turn the blame onto something else apart from the actual problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Awol said: Yeah we do. 350-400 Isis fighters have been allowed back into the country, that's tolerating extremism. Mosques are exposed for harbouring hate preachers on a fairly regular basis, nothing happens. That's tolerating extremism. Marches are held in towns like Luton where hundreds of people march preaching that the UK, democracy, police, non believers etc can go to hell. That's tolerating extremism. These aren't lies, they are examples of the State tolerating extremism. To be honest I don't believe May that the UK establishment will suddenly change its spots, but say they don't currently tolerate extremism is laughable. This is something that this country simply has to get to grips with. For me this is one of the very biggest threats facing national security, these people return with enhanced 'skills', a stronger network, battle experience and 'know how' as well as presumably increased 'confidence' to carry out mass murder in the UK. If we can identify who these people are then it is simply not enough to put them under surveillance, far more drastic measures need to be taken. Edited June 4, 2017 by Dr_Pangloss 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 36 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: I'm not saying I will give up my freedom. We will never completely stamp it out but more needs to be done because we cannot carry on like this. A lot of people moan about having whatever privacy taken away but if it helps against terrorism I'm all for it. You just contradicted yourself in space of three sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, av1 said: Oh well they are being watched, i feel safer now. Dop some litter on the floor and you'll get knicked. Fight for isis and they might keep an eye on you incase you be naughty again. Yes - commit a crime in this country, get prosecuted. Don't commit a crime, but are potentially dangerous, get monitored. Edited June 4, 2017 by bobzy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just now, jon_c said: You just contradicted yourself in space of three sentences. How's that giving up freedom? I can still go on holiday or I can still go football or I can still watch porn. If I want a day off I can and if I want to ring up an escort I can. I would still have my freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 In this thread today, we've had "arrest terrorist's families" "I would let the government monitor my calls, emails, post and internet usage in the name of national security" "Arrest people who have not committed a crime in the UK" I get that times are bad currently, but we're so much better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just now, StefanAVFC said: In this thread today, we've had "arrest terrorist's families" "I would let the government monitor my calls, emails, post and internet usage in the name of national security" "Arrest people who have not committed a crime in the UK" I get that times are bad currently, but we're so much better than this. What do you suggest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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