jon_c Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: In this thread today, we've had "arrest terrorist's families" "I would let the government monitor my calls, emails, post and internet usage in the name of national security" "Arrest people who have not committed a crime in the UK" I get that times are bad currently, but we're so much better than this. Are we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: Yes - commit a crime in this country, get prosecuted. Don't commit a crime in this country, but are potentially dangerous, get monitored. So those that fought with isis and then return to the uk are only "potentially dangerous" On that subject of being too tolerant of extremism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, bobzy said: Yes - commit a crime in this country, get prosecuted. Don't commit a crime in this country, but are potentially dangerous, get monitored. I would have thought fighting for ISIS as a UK citizen would be a crime? I don't know, just assuming. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: In this thread today, we've had "arrest terrorist's families" "I would let the government monitor my calls, emails, post and internet usage in the name of national security" "Arrest people who have not committed a crime in the UK" I get that times are bad currently, but we're so much better than this. 12 been arrested in Barking. Either family members or there's been a massive terror cell operating in the salt of the earth East End under everyone's nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: This is something that this country simply has to get to grips with. For me this is one of the very biggest threats facing national security, these people return with enhanced 'skills', a stronger network, battle experience and 'know how' as well as presumably increased 'confidence' to carry out mass murder in the UK. If we can identify who these people are then it is simply not enough to put them under surveillance, far more drastic measures need to be taken. I agree, but apparently they are free to murder, maim and rape as long as they do it to foreigners somewhere else and we watch them when they come home. I cant decide if that's unintentionally racist or just chop slappingly dumb, but it is government policy.... because they tolerate extremism. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 minute ago, VillaChris said: 12 been arrested in Barking. Either family members or there's been a massive terror cell operating in the salt of the earth East End under everyone's nose. They will probably get released without charge. I think it's protocol to arrest family members to try and gather information. No doubt there are terror cells in east London too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Xela said: I would have thought fighting for ISIS as a UK citizen would be a crime? I don't know, just assuming. Yes it is because they are a band terrorist organisation in the UK. They may not literally stand on stage with terrorists but the idea the Tories are tough on extremism is risible. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, Xela said: I would have thought fighting for ISIS as a UK citizen would be a crime? I don't know, just assuming. Just checked. Around 40 returning fighters have been picked up and arrested. So yes, and yes they are arrested for it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: In this thread today, we've had "arrest terrorist's families" "I would let the government monitor my calls, emails, post and internet usage in the name of national security" "Arrest people who have not committed a crime in the UK" I get that times are bad currently, but we're so much better than this. The first two are absurd, I agree. The last one... well, if you're a UK citizen involved in terrorism abroad then you would think that is a crime and could be arrested on your return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, av1 said: So those that fought with isis and then return to the uk are only "potentially dangerous" On that subject of being too tolerant of extremism. I would hazard a guess that it depends on what they've done. I should imagine (I have no figures) that a sizeable amount of people who have gone to Syria/Libya/Iraq/wherever and returned to the UK have been arrested for terrorist acts. Is this tolerance? I also imagine there are people who have left the UK with the ambition to fight for ISIS and have since realised they do not want to do so, and have returned (I assume this is a minority of people). What do we do then? Just kill them off in case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NurembergVillan Posted June 4, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2017 If we take May at face value - WHO has been too tolerant of extremists? We don't don't decide between watch and detain. We don't man the airports. We don't make government policy. So who is Theresa talking about? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: What do you suggest? We need to do more within the Muslim community. As Colhint says, get the Muslim council more involved. Get into mosques where these people are being radicalised. Ask members of the Muslim community to be more vigilant of those, often young, Muslims who are in danger of being radicalised. Come out and strongly condemn those who do these attacks. Get those high up in the Muslim faith to excommunicate those running off to fight with ISIS; if they care and it changes their behaviour, then great. If not, then it shows it wasn't about being a Muslim anyway. Bring our police numbers back up to where they were before the Tories cut them. Give our intelligence services the resource they need to continue monitoring these people of interest. Stop publicising these attacks - these people who commit these attacks are insane. Completely insane. By showing the world the damage they caused and announcing their names, they have achieved what they wanted. Which encourages others to do the same. Stop meddling in the Middle East. It isn't the sole factor in the spate of attacks, but there is definitely some link. Poland has zero/little terrorism. It has Schengen. Nothing would stop a Muslim of Germany nationality driving a van through the old town in Warsaw. Yet, it doesn't happen. Why is this? If I knew the answers, I'd be a very wealthy man indeed. But I do know, the answer isn't to create a culture, where everyone is monitored in every aspect of their lives, for the sake of security and they're fine with that. The point, there's a middle ground between 'do nothing' and 'give up your freedom and arrest potentially innocent people'. Edited June 4, 2017 by StefanAVFC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just now, NurembergVillan said: If we take May at face value - WHO has been too tolerant of extremists? We don't don't decide between watch and detain. We don't man the airports. We don't make government policy. So who is Theresa talking about? This is probably more my concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, Xela said: I would have thought fighting for ISIS as a UK citizen would be a crime? I don't know, just assuming. Probably, yes. I'd have thought you'd be arrested upon return to the UK, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 minute ago, NurembergVillan said: If we take May at face value - WHO has been too tolerant of extremists? We don't don't decide between watch and detain. We don't man the airports. We don't make government policy. So who is Theresa talking about? 7 years of power, and it's anyone's but their fault. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, Awol said: Yes it is because they are a band terrorist organisation in the UK. They may not literally stand on stage with terrorists but the idea the Tories are tough on extremism is risible. I don't think (could be wrong) anyone has said they're particularly tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, Xela said: The first two are absurd, I agree. The last one... well, if you're a UK citizen involved in terrorism abroad then you would think that is a crime and could be arrested on your return? Ahh, expanding on a debate in the Manchester thread. Whether we should arrest those who have suspected links without proving anything. I agree that fighting for ISIS abroad is a crime and thankfully people are arrested upon return at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 4, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, Xela said: I would have thought fighting for ISIS as a UK citizen would be a crime? I don't know, just assuming. It is and those against whom they have evidence are prosecuted such as the chap with the memory card hidden in cufflinks. However for obvious reasons the evidential trail on some runs a little cold especially with Turkey's border with Syria having been so conveniently porous (unless you are a Kurd) these last few years. You can't lock someone up on a suspicion they've been in Syria and a guess of what they were doing there. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, bobzy said: I don't think (could be wrong) anyone has said they're particularly tough. They say it about themselves mate, and it's balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 44 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: But where do you draw the line? You've said here you're happy to have some of your freedom curtailed. Where do you say enough is enough? Email? Phone calls? Post? My line in the sand would be post. I honestly wouldn't care if my internet browsing history/ Whatsapp messages/ Facebook messages/ Twitter DMs/ phone calls were monitored, if it prevented (or went some way to preventing) innocent people being killed. Life > Privacy (tin hat time) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts