Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[OutByEaster?]

51 minutes ago, Spoony said:

The UN is so toothless. There’s always the argument that it’s better to have Russia inside the tent pissing out but what’s the point when the only thing the UN is capable of is the equivalent of a strongly worded letter. Whilst Russia is a “permanent member” it’s a joke of an organisation. 

The UN is incredibly toothless - the right of veto in votes where 190 nations vote for something and one or two vote against it and have power of veto is ridiculous - the problem we have though is that in order to give it the teeth to deal with Russia and apply international law, we'd also have to apply that law to its other members. There's no way that the US will agree to that.

The UN isn't going to be an effective way to deal with Russia, hopefully the sanctions work and we can find a way to end this war for the benefit of Ukrainians as soon as we can.

 

 

[limpid]

4 hours ago, og1874 said:

Yeah, the general level of idiocy on this planet is far, far higher than we realise. I don't know how most humans get through the day without setting themselves on fire, or drinking bleach.

Think about who you know that you would say is of average intelligence. Half the population has a lower intelligence than that.

All supercharged with Dunning-Kruger.

[Awol]

Czech Republic stepping up to transfer heavy kit to Ukraine. Looks like Russia’s genocidal tendencies have finally broken down German/French/American resistance to properly arming Ukraine. Hopefully this will mark a turning point in the conflict and the west now commits to resourcing a Ukrainian victory.

 

 

[sidcow]

59 minutes ago, limpid said:

Think about who you know that you would say is of average intelligence. Half the population has a lower intelligence than that.

All supercharged with Dunkin' Donuts 

Fixed that for you

[jackbauer24]

Although this increasingly applies to the world as whole, how does society deal with just complete unshakeable stubborness in the face of any logic, proof or reality?

I can get my head round messed up ideology. However f*cked up it is, there is something to argue, to debate, to reason with and try to understand and, potentially, alter.

But if everything is complete denied or claimed as fake or a conspiracy, how do we move forward? It is akin to a child standing in front of you eating sweets and saying they're not. I am at a loss for the next step.

When you add in the fact that the accused are practically untouchable, it is a depressing time for humanity. It feels like it started with Trump, there is no truth anymore. Even dictators used to 'explain' their actions, now they stand there with a smoking gun, footage of them having shot it and dead bodies in the ground, saying they didn't even do it.

How does humanity deal with this seemingly new 'obnoxiousness' for want of a better word? We now have cameras in every phone, mass media, the internet and hd satellites and yet there seems to be less acceptance of facts than ever.

[KentVillan]

1 hour ago, limpid said:

Think about who you know that you would say is of average intelligence. Half the population has a lower intelligence than that.

All supercharged with Dunning-Kruger.

I think the Dunning-Kruger effect is a population-level tendency, so thankfully lots of people don't display it 

[Genie]

2 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said:

Although this increasingly applies to the world as whole, how does society deal with just complete unshakeable stubborness in the face of any logic, proof or reality?

I can get my head round messed up ideology. However f*cked up it is, there is something to argue, to debate, to reason with and try to understand and, potentially, alter.

But if everything is complete denied or claimed as fake or a conspiracy, how do we move forward? It is akin to a child standing in front of you eating sweets and saying they're not. I am at a loss for the next step.

When you add in the fact that the accused are practically untouchable, it is a depressing time for humanity. It feels like it started with Trump, there is no truth anymore. Even dictators used to 'explain' their actions, now they stand there with a smoking gun, footage of them having shot it and dead bodies in the ground, saying they didn't even do it.

How does humanity deal with this seemingly new 'obnoxiousness' for want of a better word? We now have cameras in every phone, mass media, the internet and hd satellites and yet there seems to be less acceptance of facts than ever.

I had many discussions about vaccines with people on Facebook.

Something like “vaccines don’t work”

Heres the proof / data they work

”that data can’t be trusted”

Its the same for any given theme. 

[KentVillan]

1 minute ago, jackbauer24 said:

Although this increasingly applies to the world as whole, how does society deal with just complete unshakeable stubborness in the face of any logic, proof or reality?

I can get my head round messed up ideology. However f*cked up it is, there is something to argue, to debate, to reason with and try to understand and, potentially, alter.

But if everything is complete denied or claimed as fake or a conspiracy, how do we move forward? It is akin to a child standing in front of you eating sweets and saying they're not. I am at a loss for the next step.

When you add in the fact that the accused are practically untouchable, it is a depressing time for humanity. It feels like it started with Trump, there is no truth anymore. Even dictators used to 'explain' their actions, now they stand there with a smoking gun, footage of them having shot it and dead bodies in the ground, saying they didn't even do it.

How does humanity deal with this seemingly new 'obnoxiousness' for want of a better word? We now have cameras in every phone, mass media, the internet and hd satellites and yet there seems to be less acceptance of facts than ever.

I'm not sure how new it is. Imperialism, Nazism, Stalinism, extremist Islamism, McCarthyism, etc all hinged on fantastical stories, unfounded beliefs, and conspiracy theories.

I saw the other day that only 40% of the US population are convinced that evolution is the best explanation for life on earth. This kind of view pre-dates Twitter and Facebook and 24 hr news.

Human beings are storytellers and dreamers. I guess that is what inspires people to do great things, but it also has a dark side.

[jackbauer24]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

I had many discussions about vaccines with people on Facebook.

Something like “vaccines don’t work”

Heres the proof / data they work

”that data can’t be trusted”

Its the same for any given theme. 

But when did this happen? It feels like a comparatively new phenomenon. Nazis, ISIS... whoever; they all seemed to own their actions under some messed up ideology. But now we're in a non-war, fighting the boogeyman, denying everything we do to our own citizens and the world in the face of any fact or evidence. You can't reason with, and ultimately achieve peace with, such insanity.

[fruitvilla]

1 hour ago, limpid said:

All supercharged with Dunning-Kruger.

Dunning Kruger effect - not all it's cracked up to be.

The Dunning-Kruger effect was never about “dumb people not knowing they are dumb” or about “ignorant people being very arrogant and confident in their lack of knowledge.”

[sidcow]

4 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I saw the other day that only 40% of the US population are convinced that evolution is the best explanation for life on earth. This kind of view pre-dates Twitter and Facebook and 24 hr news. 

You can't rely on a serious answer from America on that. 20-30% will say it's because of God. 

It's our own fault for forcing all the religious nuts to emigrate there. 

[Genie]

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

You can't rely on a serious answer from America on that. 20-30% will say it's because of God. 

It's our own fault for forcing all the religious nuts to emigrate there. 

Yup, they believe that everyone having a gun makes the place safer.

[Zatman]

6 hours ago, Spoony said:

The UN is so toothless. There’s always the argument that it’s better to have Russia inside the tent pissing out but what’s the point when the only thing the UN is capable of is the equivalent of a strongly worded letter. Whilst Russia is a “permanent member” it’s a joke of an organisation. 

They actually do the impossible and make FIFA look competent

[TheAuthority]

6 hours ago, sidcow said:

You can't rely on a serious answer from America

You could have just stopped there.

[magnkarl]

So far, none of Russia's self proclaimed "best" tank, the T-14 Armata have been seen in Ukraine. Analysts are now almost certain that this tank is just a myth. It was claimed by Russia to go faster, hit harder, be fully automated and beat anything the world can muster. It now appears like it's not what it's cracked up to be. A bit like the SU-35, SU-57, BUK-M3 and a long list of many other things that have been severely overplayed by Russia. Paper bear.

[HKP90]

10 hours ago, jackbauer24 said:

Although this increasingly applies to the world as whole, how does society deal with just complete unshakeable stubborness in the face of any logic, proof or reality?

I can get my head round messed up ideology. However f*cked up it is, there is something to argue, to debate, to reason with and try to understand and, potentially, alter.

But if everything is complete denied or claimed as fake or a conspiracy, how do we move forward? It is akin to a child standing in front of you eating sweets and saying they're not. I am at a loss for the next step.

When you add in the fact that the accused are practically untouchable, it is a depressing time for humanity. It feels like it started with Trump, there is no truth anymore. Even dictators used to 'explain' their actions, now they stand there with a smoking gun, footage of them having shot it and dead bodies in the ground, saying they didn't even do it.

How does humanity deal with this seemingly new 'obnoxiousness' for want of a better word? We now have cameras in every phone, mass media, the internet and hd satellites and yet there seems to be less acceptance of facts than ever.

I think it all goes back to one man:

[osmark86]

Not sure if this has been posted, but I believe this is a pretty good illustration of the Russian gov't narrative being pushed to their people about the situation in Ukraine. Basically a propaganda think-piece justifying the war:

https://medium.com/@kravchenko_mm/what-should-russia-do-with-ukraine-translation-of-a-propaganda-article-by-a-russian-journalist-a3e92e3cb64

Quote

The current nazified Ukraine is characterized by its formlessness and ambivalence, which allow it to disguise Nazism as the aspiration to “independence” and the “European” (Western, pro-American) path of “development” (in reality, to degradation) and claim that “there is no Nazism” in Ukraine, “only few sporadic incidents.” Indeed, there isn’t a main Nazi party, no Führer, no full-fledged racial laws (only a cutdown version in the form of repressions against the Russian language). As a result — no opposition or resistance against the regime.

However, all listed above doesn’t make Ukrainian Nazism a “light version” of the German Nazism of the first half of the 20th century. Quite the opposite: since Ukrainian Nazism is free from such “genre” norms and limitations (which are essentially a product of political technologies), it can spread freely just like a basis for any Nazism — both European and, in its most developed form, the American racism. That’s why there can be no compromise during denazification, as in the case of the “no to NATO, yes to EU” formula. The collective West is in itself the architect, source, and sponsor of Ukrainian Nazism, while the Banderite supporters from Western Ukraine and their “historical memory” is just one of the tools of the nazification of Ukraine. Ukronazism poses a much bigger threat to the world and Russia than the Hitler version of German Nazism.

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by osmark86

[Wainy316]

12 hours ago, sidcow said:

You can't rely on a serious answer from America on that. 20-30% will say it's because of God. 

It's our own fault for forcing all the religious nuts to emigrate there. 

I'd expect it would be a lot higher than that.

[Awol]

1 hour ago, osmark86 said:

Not sure if this has been posted, but I believe this is a pretty good illustration of the Russian gov't narrative being pushed to their people about the situation in Ukraine. Basically a propaganda think-piece justifying the war:

https://medium.com/@kravchenko_mm/what-should-russia-do-with-ukraine-translation-of-a-propaganda-article-by-a-russian-journalist-a3e92e3cb64

 

Trying (with obvious success) to normalize and justify genocide as a moral endeavour. In this framing to identify as Ukrainian is to be a Nazi & Russian public opinion doesn’t appear to disagree.

Not just the US and UK, but those powers who view themselves as the leading states of the EU need to step up now. Russia will be applying the methods of Bucha in every Ukrainian town it can take.

Europeans speak of strategic autonomy all the time, but seemingly without comprehending what that means in terms of difficult decisions, strategic prioritisation, and acceptance of risk. Their ‘Little Europa’ attitude won’t keep Russia at arms length.

 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

4 hours ago, magnkarl said:

So far, none of Russia's self proclaimed "best" tank, the T-14 Armata have been seen in Ukraine. Analysts are now almost certain that this tank is just a myth. It was claimed by Russia to go faster, hit harder, be fully automated and beat anything the world can muster. It now appears like it's not what it's cracked up to be. A bit like the SU-35, SU-57, BUK-M3 and a long list of many other things that have been severely overplayed by Russia. Paper bear.

I've also had a long thought opinion that Russia is full of s*** and their nukes are actually made of Papier-mâché.