17/18 Promotion Charge

[Demitri_C]

22 minutes ago, TRO said:

I do agree about the creative spark and any  team would miss a Grealish.....but he is not just better than the rest, he is a country mile better.

We can talk about missing players and it comes across like a plethora of excuses....We need to man up.

But I saw Preston players doing things  that if the likes of Hourihane and Lansbury were doing it ....they would be heroes.....We have too many who are not quite good enough and to make matters much worse, think they are good enough , by their lack of combatitve spirit.

You have to fight in this league not just turn up.....and teams flirting with 2/3 place you expect that from.

good job, I never went in the dressing room afterwards.....I would have done a Warnock on them.

and Davis's miss.......well I pass .......******* sloppy.

 

We do have alot of quality in this squad but set up negatively as well as players not performing to their capability is costing us. Hourihane just disappears if that creative spark is missing instead of helping others. Onomah was rubbish first half then second half he seemed to have come to life. the only creative spark was grabban. he did very well in my opinion.

As for Davis I remember that move where all he had to do was square a ball well and bjarnason was free and it was such a terrible pass.  The miss at the end was diabolical but not surprising when it comes to davis. for me davis shouldn't play as main striker as his finishing is that bad. but when he does put a performance in he is good at holding the ball and bring those around him into play. but he has not been that good with this for a number of appearances recently. has to do a whole lot better than what he did yesterday if he wants to be a automatic starter 

[TRO]

6 hours ago, terrytini said:

Always always the players.

The amount of times you’d have given them the hair drier none would want to play for you !!

The reason PNE played how they did is because that’s how they have been coached and drilled to play, just like Fulham at the weekend.

The reason we don’t is because we haven’t been, we use a different approach entirely which is based around (a) being tight, (b)not overly worrying about having the ball, and (c)relying on individual moments.

Its worked recently but has key components missing so we are left with (a) and (b).

Yes there were some below par performances and a missed chance but hey !! Just like the ‘mistakes cost us’ argument these are red herrings they happen to every team....in my view.

 

 

Jesus, Terry, who else was playing out there other than players.

I actually think SB sent the wrong team out.....I like Jed, but not for this game, they move the ball too quickly, he is too slow.....but even if the team was wrong, we can compete better than that surely.

I take your point about Coaching, but how do we know they are not being coached properly, but just not doing what they are told......

How do you account for losing so many balls in the air all over the pitch.....is that coaching or players not competing?

Not blaming Hogan, but he was the wrong choice....but if you said to David Speedie or Craig Bellemy, you are too small, we need someone bigger today, they would laugh and say " try me" and they would give the centre half a nightmare..... for Their centre half Paul Huntingdon it was a walk in the park, he had all the time and pleasure to boot and head the ball up the park.

We need some fire in our belly's to get second place.

We are much too passive.....yes I blame the manager to a degree for that......Warnock would have our team fired up, but of course its only one aspect of many, many things.

for sure we had disruption in personnel, but some of that stuff last night, was beyond that.......Onomah had a wicked first half and improved in the second, who else can you look to other than the player himself.

It does actually beg the question are certain players carrying the rest.

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by TRO

[John]

Around 89 - 90 points would give us second (just) for me. Have just done the predictor and had us a point above Derby on 89 having won our home game against them. Looks good on paper.

[Delphinho123]

5 minutes ago, John said:

Around 89 - 90 points would give us second (just) for me. Have just done the predictor and had us a point above Derby on 89 having won our home game against them. Looks good on paper.

You must have forgot we're playing a centre half at right back, a right back is at left back, a central midfieder is playing as a winger, another defensive central midfielder who shouldnt be in the team is playing as a no.10, a striker is playing on the left, we have a striker who offers nothing and our best 3 players are out injured and noone knows why.

But yeh, one point above Derby..

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, John said:

Around 89 - 90 points would give us second (just) for me. Have just done the predictor and had us a point above Derby on 89 having won our home game against them. Looks good on paper.

I think a lot depends on how we play....and its clear that Injuries will play a big part in that.

When we are at our best, we are very good.....but we are able to find performances well below our aspirations at times, for whatever reasons.

It also depends how many games we can find our form and how many we serve up like last night.......The predictor may not be able to factor that in?

Personally, I think.....Play offs.

[Delphinho123]

Bruce got it badly wrong last night against Preston.

We have key players injured - key players who contribute to a 4-1-4-1 system that worked for 7/8 games in succession. Instead of accepting that he doesnt currently have the personnel fit to play this formation, he persists with it and just throws in a mish mash of players out of position to accomodate it. Instead of bringing in a like for like replacement to Grealish in O'Hare, he throws in Onomah, and plays Bjarnasson out wide, a position he has never played well in. 

As a team, we are very ordinary to watch withoiut Kodjia, Grealish, Adomah and a misfiring Snodgrass. Bruce needs to accept that when these players are out, he needs to either bring in like for like from the youth or change it up and accept it isn't going to be pretty and we need to win ugly by adopting a more physical approach.

As things stand, we need to desperately try and stay within touching distance of the top 6 while Grealish and Adomah are out injured. You can forget any chance of automatic promotion while these two are out. We have a solid back 4, Grealish's creativity and Adomahs goals - not much else I'm afraid. 

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Bruce got it badly wrong last night against Preston.

We have key players injured - key players who contribute to a 4-1-4-1 system that worked for 7/8 games in succession. Instead of accepting that he doesnt currently have the personnel fit to play this formation, he persists with it and just throws in a mish mash of players out of position to accomodate it. Instead of bringing in a like for like replacement to Grealish in O'Hare, he throws in Onomah, and plays Bjarnasson out wide, a position he has never played well in. 

As a team, we are very ordinary to watch withoiut Kodjia, Grealish, Adomah and a misfiring Snodgrass. Bruce needs to accept that when these players are out, he needs to either bring in like for like from the youth or change it up and accept it isn't going to be pretty and we need to win ugly by adopting a more physical approach.

As things stand, we need to desperately try and stay within touching distance of the top 6 while Grealish and Adomah are out injured. You can forget any chance of automatic promotion while these two are out. We have a solid back 4, Grealish's creativity and Adomahs goals - not much else I'm afraid. 

I agree.....but how does that reconcile with " We have the best squad" in the division that is claimed by some.

We have a problem with centre midfield by players who fail to dominate that position.....That has to have a bearing on us as to how good a team we are.

We have been masking over problems by an exceptionally gifted player, who has come back in to the side fired up and ready to compete.....we missed that last night.

[Delphinho123]

13 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree.....but how does that reconcile with " We have the best squad" in the division that is claimed by some.

We have a problem with centre midfield by players who fail to dominate that position.....That has to have a bearing on us as to how good a team we are.

We have been masking over problems by an exceptionally gifted player, who has come back in to the side fired up and ready to compete.....we missed that last night.

Our squad is nowhere near the best in the division. Unfortunately, it is made up of wholly average players that aren't good enough to get us promoted. We rely so heavily on Chester and Terry in a defensive sense and then hope one or two can conjur up a bit of magic to win us games. Without Grealish we are so, so average to watch.

What has become increasingly obvious also is our lack of any real leader in the middle of the park. Whelan and Jedinak are too immobile to dominate that position, Lansbury is a charlatan and Hourihane has been a disappointment for me. If all the talk of financial problems if we don't go up are true, we are in for a tough season next year without any new signings and not being able to extend contracts for the likes of Hutton. 

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Our squad is nowhere near the best in the division. Unfortunately, it is made up of wholly average players that aren't good enough to get us promoted. We rely so heavily on Chester and Terry in a defensive sense and then hope one or two can conjur up a bit of magic to win us games. Without Grealish we are so, so average to watch.

What has become increasingly obvious also is our lack of any real leader in the middle of the park. Whelan and Jedinak are too immobile to dominate that position, Lansbury is a charlatan and Hourihane has been a disappointment for me. If all the talk of financial problems if we don't go up are true, we are in for a tough season next year without any new signings and not being able to extend contracts for the likes of Hutton. 

I concur

[terrytini]

Whether we have the “ best” squad or whatever isn’t an issue. It’s certainky no worse than many/ most others.

The clear difference, which most, but not all, watchers see relatively easily, is that many of the teams we play simply play a more clearly defined and organised, repeatable, way. Coaching - or the lack of it - is the key.

When Greece won the Euros.....best squad ? No. Leicester ?."...Iceland ?.....But never mind those lofty examples just keep your eyes on over half the sides we play. Look at our own side of ‘81......how many seasoned internationals ? Very few, the Manager made good players great.

Majority of Players are largely at similar skill/ attitude levels from about 14th in Premier League to top half of the Championship. Then there are the talents, of which we have our share. That’s why it’s NOT all about players, that’s why management matters, it’s why not just anyone that can turn up and manage, why Monday to Friday is crucial. Management doesn’t make everything but it makes the difference.

[osmark86]

2 hours ago, vreitti said:

I wholeheartedly agree, but I still can understand the fans not being happy with yesterday's performance. Bruce seriously needs to think about it imho. He didn't set up to play the kind of football that we need to play in order to get promoted. Simple as that.

I'm not saying they should be happy with it. Neither am I! However, it really doesn't defend sneering and booing. If these fans don't understand my earlier point, then please, stay at home and watch the game on your telly. We don't need that kind of negativity raining down on our players.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, terrytini said:

Whether we have the “ best” squad or whatever isn’t an issue. It’s certainky no worse than many/ most others.

The clear difference, which most, but not all, watchers see relatively easily, is that many of the teams we play simply play a more clearly defined and organised, repeatable, way. Coaching - or the lack of it - is the key.

When Greece won the Euros.....best squad ? No. Leicester ?."...Iceland ?.....But never mind those lofty examples just keep your eyes on over half the sides we play. Look at our own side of ‘81......how many seasoned internationals ? Very few, the Manager made good players great.

Majority of Players are largely at similar skill/ attitude levels from about 14th in Premier League to top half of the Championship. Then there are the talents, of which we have our share. That’s why it’s NOT all about players, that’s why management matters, it’s why not just anyone that can turn up and manage, why Monday to Friday is crucial. Management doesn’t make everything but it makes the difference.

Of course it does.....not arguing.

but '81 we had no injuries......Its both Terry, Manager and players they are in it together.

I cannot look you in the eye and say Bruce was blameless.....I thought he got it wrong First half, but I still think it was compounded by players not competing and that is his responsibility too....more at the training ground than on the night.....when they run over that white line, its down to them.

He has to have them " at it"......I don't think they was......Alex Neil had his lot competing first for ever ball.

Calderwood commented on a game when Steve was absent and said " We wasn't aggressive enough".....they obviously know......but doing something about it is a different matter.

We are top of the fair play league, with the least yellow cards, very noble.....what does that suggest?

Edited February 21, 2018 by TRO

[omariqy]

On 2/8/2018 at 12:07, omariqy said:

Feb prediction time.  I predicted a win against Burton so that's already in the bag.

Burton (H) - Win

Blues (H) - Draw

Fulham (A) - Loss

Preston (H) - Win

Sheff W (A) - Win

10 points out of 15 possible would not be too bad although would like to avoid defeat against Fulham.

So we really need to win against Sheff Wed to get to the 10 point target which all in all would be a reasonable return from those games. 

[omariqy]

13 games left we really need 8 wins I feel. Of the 13 we play 6 are in the relegation scrap and 10 overall are outside of the top 10. Where do we think those wins will come from? 

[villianusa]

We have  pretty good squad and one of the better ones in the league, where we are short is in creativity. This isn't just the number ten role, this is the wide players also. We don't have the depth, and at the Bruce isn't willing to use the youth to fill in when any of the attack-minded players are out injured. We have enough quality in the center forward role to get us over the line, but if the three supply lines dry up then we will struggle to get through the play-offs, let alone get automatic promotion.

I have been a Bruce advocate, but if he tries to fit the squad players into the holes and not bring in like for like no matter of their age then he falls on his sword. For me, he has to bring in new players this weekend and continue to play the formation that has been successful with players who can produce in given areas. The reserve players should know be playing the same way as the first team, so when they are needed they can drop in. I don't watch the U23's enough to know if this is the case. Maybe, SGC can help with that one.

[cb_82]

Preston have lost 1 in 17 and 6 all season having beat Cardiff Away and drawn with Wolves Saturday despite having 10 men ...........

 

We have our best 3 attacking players injured and expect to pile through them and then boo because we dont win.....

 

So embarrassing at times......

[BigJim]

23 minutes ago, omariqy said:

13 games left we really need 8 wins I feel. Of the 13 we play 6 are in the relegation scrap and 10 overall are outside of the top 10. Where do we think those wins will come from? 

Tough call. I fancy us far more away than at home.

H: QPR, Reading

A: Wednesday, Sunderland, Hull, Bolton, Ipswich, Millwall

Now I've put it down, it looks incredibly unlikely .

[Mark Albrighton]

35 minutes ago, omariqy said:

13 games left we really need 8 wins I feel. Of the 13 we play 6 are in the relegation scrap and 10 overall are outside of the top 10. Where do we think those wins will come from? 

For me, the “really winnable” matches are Sheff Wed, QPR, Sunderland, Bolton, Hull, Reading, Norwich, Leeds and Ipswich. 

We should be looking at 6 or 7 wins from that lot.

The matches that are still winnable, but I suspect are going to be harder are Cardiff, Derby and Millwall. 

One or two wins there.

Then there’s Wolves. Again it’s winnable but I don’t see us getting more than a point in that one.

This is taking a positive stance, I didn’t think we’d beat Boro or Sheff Utd, so you never know.

This also assumes our injured players are back ASAP and the squad not being taken out by an outbreak of scurvy or something.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Shropshire Lad

[villianusa]

11 minutes ago, cb_82 said:

Preston have lost 1 in 17 and 6 all season having beat Cardiff Away and drawn with Wolves Saturday despite having 10 men ...........

 

We have our best 3 attacking players injured and expect to pile through them and then boo because we dont win.....

 

So embarrassing at times......

Even with what I have said about creativity, I have watched the extended highlights and had a good number of chances. Their keeper made a number of good saves, but a lot did come from long distance. We road our luck a couple of times and Johnstone made up for another goalkeeping error.

I don't know if Chester called when he was on the line, but he would have headed that goal clear.

[HeyAnty]

Dont like the way Middlesboro have made it into play offs.  Typical Tony Pulis side.  I have a real fear if we dont make 2nd we wont be going up.