Scott Hogan

[hippo]

15 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

And I was recalling that the main criticism of KODJIA is that he is too greedy. Perhaps we could've had more goals last season if he would've passed in the final third.

Look, you've clearly made your mind up with Hogan, he's obviously done something to properly offend you. You've given him 10 games and written him off as a complete flop. You've taken everyone opportunity to have a go, you've used everything you possibly can against him after 10 games. That's up to you, so I'm done because you've made your decision. So I just await Hogan to prove you wrong (and also wait for some kind of sarcy remark about how I'll be waiting along time or some other ridiculous abuse towards a player that has played 10 games for our football club.

Ive said I thought he played quite well in the first half v hull.

Going forward I don't see him as a prolific scorer for us. If he does then that will probably mean we get promoted - and I will quite happily post on here that I was wrong. To me a good striker gets goals a poor one doesn't - Benteke scored loads in a shite villa team. Darren Bent never played for a good team but was prolific for many years.

I don't believe I have abused hogan other than I don't think he is a very good player - and has only scored one goal since arriving.

I am in despair at the moment with AVFC - I just don't see a way forward. From top to bottom everything looks right. Believe me , being wrong on Hogan would be the least of my concerns if he scored a hatful of goals in the next few games.

 

[markavfc40]

I thought he played very well in the first half on Saturday and on another day could have had a couple of goals. In the second half we didn’t have any control of the game and he was then not involved but I wouldn’t blame him for that.

He needs to start tomorrow and hopefully bag a goal or two as like make forwards his whole game is based on being confident and that only really comes from scoring. I see enough in him though to think he can bag us a good 12-15 goals this season as he makes some very intelligent runs. He needs some consistency around him though and to play with the same players alongside him and in the advanced midfield role so he can build up some understandings.

[villabromsgrove]

7 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I thought he played very well in the first half on Saturday and on another day could have had a couple of goals. In the second half we didn’t have any control of the game and he was then not involved but I wouldn’t blame him for that.

He needs to start tomorrow and hopefully bag a goal or two as like make forwards his whole game is based on being confident and that only really comes from scoring. I see enough in him though to think he can bag us a good 12-15 goals this season as he makes some very intelligent runs. He needs some consistency around him though and to play with the same players alongside him and in the advanced midfield role so he can build up some understandings.

I think that you've hit the nail on the head Mark with this post. It's the consistency of selection of the players picked to play around him and support his runs, that will enable an understanding to develop. The number 10 role given to Lansbury against Hull was yet another change to be factored in to a muddled revolving midfield. Bruce needs to decide on his best eleven and stick to it, apart from the occasional mid week rest for old legs. Only then will we see Hogan at his deadliest.

Hogan is an asset when we are playing an attacking and pressing game, but is far less effective when we drop deep and isolate him. It's an obvious thing to say, but it happens far too much at the moment.

[DCJonah]

Is it the players around him that prevent him from closing defenders down? Being able to hold the ball up? Complete some football basics?

A lot of reasons and theories are produced to explain why it's not happening for Hogan at the moment. I think he needs to take much more responsibility for his own performances. 

[DCJonah]

Is it the players around him that prevent him from closing defenders down? Being able to hold the ball up? Complete some football basics?

A lot of reasons and theories are produced to explain why it's not happening for Hogan at the moment. I think he needs to take much more responsibility for his own performances. 

[Stevo985]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Is it the players around him that prevent him from closing defenders down? Being able to hold the ball up? Complete some football basics?

A lot of reasons and theories are produced to explain why it's not happening for Hogan at the moment. I think he needs to take much more responsibility for his own performances. 

I thought he closed down as much as anyone else on Saturday.

And he's not the kind of player that holds up the ball, but he does lay it off and bring others into play. Several times on Saturday the ball reached him in the box and he immediately laid it back to Lansbury or Whelan with a clever touch.

I've expressed my concern with Hogan's performances before, particularly towards the end of last season. But I don't think Saturday fits in to that. If he continues like that then there's a player in there. Just because he didn't get a goal on Saturday doesn't mean he didn't play well. I thought he was very promising, but faded in the second half.

I still think he could come good.

[DCJonah]

11 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I thought he closed down as much as anyone else on Saturday.

And he's not the kind of player that holds up the ball, but he does lay it off and bring others into play. Several times on Saturday the ball reached him in the box and he immediately laid it back to Lansbury or Whelan with a clever touch.

I've expressed my concern with Hogan's performances before, particularly towards the end of last season. But I don't think Saturday fits in to that. If he continues like that then there's a player in there. Just because he didn't get a goal on Saturday doesn't mean he didn't play well. I thought he was very promising, but faded in the second half.

I still think he could come good.

I felt first 30 minutes he worked really hard and did a couple of beautiful touches in the area, looked really lively and created a good chance with some brilliant skill. Most of the game after that he was back to his previous version. Hull defenders had much more time on the ball, and we couldn't retain it because his hold up play was absolutely awful at times. He's a professional football player, he should be able to hold the ball up at times and the second half he was beaten to the ball, easily out muscled or his touch let him down. 

He's got many flaws to his game and I don't buy into the idea it's everyone else's fault. I want to see him step his game up as well as others provide some better service. 

At the moment though he's doing nothing to justify the price paid for him. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by DCJonah

[DCJonah]

Just looking at some stats from the game. He attempted 10 passes and completed 5 of them. 

Is it any wonder we can't build attacks and keep the ball when our forward player completes 5 passes in 77 minutes? 

Just doesn't get in the game enough. And if he requires his team mates to do so much for him then he's a liability IMO and not an asset. 

[AntrimBlack]

The problem with a number of players who have performed well for previous clubs is that after all this time Bruce has still not settled on a team. How can they `gel' if the personnel around them keep changing.

[rodders0223]

A little from column A and a little from column B. There is only one way we are going to be able to play with Hogan in the team, and you need to look at the management, and the scouting in serious depth and ask why we signed this guy.

Could he score 20 goals a season? Most definitely, in the right set up.

Will he ever score 20 goals in a Bruce team? Not in a billion years.

Will Bruce be able to utilise him in the way he wants to win football matches? Not in a billion years - he is too limited, his touch is genuinely horrific, he is too weak, cannot play with his back to goal.

 

If this is a Bruce signing and Bruce tells says he has watched him for years then he is lying

Edited August 8, 2017 by rodders0223

[hippo]

3 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

A little from column A and a little from column B. There is only one way we are going to be able to play with Hogan in the team, and you need to look at the management, and the scouting in serious depth and ask why we signed this guy.

Could he score 20 goals a season? Most definitely, in the right set up.

Will he ever score 20 goals in a Bruce team? Not in a billion years.

Will Bruce be able to utilise him in the way he wants to win football matches? Not in a billion years - he is too limited, his touch is genuinely horrific, he is too weak, cannot play with his back to goal.

 

If this is a Bruce signing and Bruce tells says he has watched him for years then he is lying

Don't forget Hogan hasn't always been prolific at his past clubs - he didn't really start scoring until a couple of seasons ago. a goalless Hogan isn't that unusual.  

[omariqy]

44 minutes ago, hippo said:

Don't forget Hogan hasn't always been prolific at his past clubs - he didn't really start scoring until a couple of seasons ago. a goalless Hogan isn't that unusual.  

He scored 17 goals in 33 games for Rochdale in 2013. He was then injured for the next season. Returned the following season for Brentford to score 7 in 7 and then the follow season scored 14 in 25 games.

[romavillan]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Just looking at some stats from the game. He attempted 10 passes and completed 5 of them. 

Is it any wonder we can't build attacks and keep the ball when our forward player completes 5 passes in 77 minutes? 

Just doesn't get in the game enough. And if he requires his team mates to do so much for him then he's a liability IMO and not an asset. 

I'd say that's not 100% his fault though I'd like to see an aerial shot of the players position on the pitch when he received the ball in those 10 occasions. I would hazard a guess that at least 50% of the time there was **** all on, our movement up top is shambolic.

[omariqy]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Just looking at some stats from the game. He attempted 10 passes and completed 5 of them. 

Is it any wonder we can't build attacks and keep the ball when our forward player completes 5 passes in 77 minutes? 

Just doesn't get in the game enough. And if he requires his team mates to do so much for him then he's a liability IMO and not an asset. 

Off topic but this reminds me. I think yesterday was the anniversary of when Gabby attempted only 1 pass in the game against Bournemouth.

[DCJonah]

15 minutes ago, omariqy said:

He scored 17 goals in 33 games for Rochdale in 2013. He was then injured for the next season. Returned the following season for Brentford to score 7 in 7 and then the follow season scored 14 in 25 games.

This is another worry I have. 

At the age of 25 we're taking about a spell of 32 games in the championship. 

That doesn't fill me with confidence that he's the natural proven finisher worth the money we've paid. 

[omariqy]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

This is another worry I have. 

At the age of 25 we're taking about a spell of 32 games in the championship. 

That doesn't fill me with confidence that he's the natural proven finisher worth the money we've paid. 

You can tell by watching a player if they have the quality. Hogan has the quality. He is quick, has good movement, is always sharp and finishes well.  

[DCJonah]

11 minutes ago, omariqy said:

You can tell by watching a player if they have the quality. Hogan has the quality. He is quick, has good movement, is always sharp and finishes well.  

I just haven't seen it. Hope you're right because I don't think we get promoted if he doesn't contribute lots. 

[bobzy]

2 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Just looking at some stats from the game. He attempted 10 passes and completed 5 of them. 

Is it any wonder we can't build attacks and keep the ball when our forward player completes 5 passes in 77 minutes? 

Just doesn't get in the game enough. And if he requires his team mates to do so much for him then he's a liability IMO and not an asset. 

He's very similar to Kodjia in that respect, though.  Kodjia doesn't lay the ball off much or try to create anything - he looks for goal.

The difference, for me, is that Kodjia will often create something himself (he honestly shoots from absolutely anywhere) - he happily works with his back to goal.  Hogan, on the other hand, doesn't - he is always trying to run forwards and on to balls.  A couple of times in pre-season, I noticed John Terry was playing long balls into the channel for Hogan to chase.

Neither striker passes much, both are very direct and both are looking to score.  My hope is that Kodjia and Hogan can form a cohesive partnership because I think they'd work well together... if they both fancy being involved in a bit more link-up play.

[DCJonah]

32 minutes ago, bobzy said:

He's very similar to Kodjia in that respect, though.  Kodjia doesn't lay the ball off much or try to create anything - he looks for goal.

The difference, for me, is that Kodjia will often create something himself (he honestly shoots from absolutely anywhere) - he happily works with his back to goal.  Hogan, on the other hand, doesn't - he is always trying to run forwards and on to balls.  A couple of times in pre-season, I noticed John Terry was playing long balls into the channel for Hogan to chase.

Neither striker passes much, both are very direct and both are looking to score.  My hope is that Kodjia and Hogan can form a cohesive partnership because I think they'd work well together... if they both fancy being involved in a bit more link-up play.

Yep kodjia is similar but I think he gets himself involved more, wether that's dropping deep and collecting the ball or using his physical attributes. 

Kodjia average around 16 passes a game last season. Hogan for villa averaged around 7 and for Brentford around 12

He has to add a bit more to his game because if we play every ball over the top to him we're never going to build attacks or keep the ball and will always be under pressure. 

Hopefully kodjia and Hogan can form that partnership but then we leave ourselves light in midfield and I'm not sure Jedinak or Whelan are mobile enough to play in a 2. 

[bobzy]

6 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Yep kodjia is similar but I think he gets himself involved more, wether that's dropping deep and collecting the ball or using his physical attributes. 

Kodjia average around 16 passes a game last season. Hogan for villa averaged around 7 and for Brentford around 12

He has to add a bit more to his game because if we play every ball over the top to him we're never going to build attacks or keep the ball and will always be under pressure. 

Hopefully kodjia and Hogan can form that partnership but then we leave ourselves light in midfield and I'm not sure Jedinak or Whelan are mobile enough to play in a 2. 

Agreed - I think our central midfield is weak really.  I'd probably play Hourihane and Lansbury with no **** holding midfielder, but we all know that isn't going to happen...