Grasshopper Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, TRO said: Arguing.....because I disagree with you......for the sake of it, really?..that was cheap. No not cheap other posters have also comment on you evading the arguements against some of your points 5 minutes ago, TRO said: Ryan Giggs comments was not meant to be a comparison on the player ( but you read in to it what you wish, you usually do) it was the principle in what the players was saying of who's responsibility it is...."YOU HAVE TO ADAPT".....Comprende...... You related it directly to hogan I didnt 5 minutes ago, TRO said: you do go off at a tangent GH. see above comment 5 minutes ago, TRO said: What fit forwards for every game? So far this season, we have fielded at least one striker - Bruce has chosen to leave CF‘s of varying levels in the stands 5 minutes ago, TRO said: Our midfielders have been scoring, but there is a difference between what actually happened and what is to be expected......you cannot expect to launch a promotion challenge EXPECTING to get by for goals by your midfield....its ridiculous. It‘s not ridiculous It is actually happenening 5 minutes ago, TRO said: Well let me use the other half of my brain cell.......So, Steve Bruce sets us up in a game where a midfielder scores 3 and he learns nothing from that game and just reverts to type, because thats what he does......Rubbish. I can not for the life of me understand why you say rubbish when it is exactly what he did 5 minutes ago, TRO said: Onomah, Snod and Lansbury are not playing particularly well at present , thats subjective, granted......they score odd goals..........but can you rely on them to keep scoring goals, NO Yes because IF you loan out a 20goal per season player, Bench or abuse another 20gps striker and have your very own 19gps out injured THE MANAGER ADJUSTS Especially when you have the likes of Adomah, Hourihane, Snod, Onomah, Grealish, Chester & Terry who you ca PLAY TO 5 minutes ago, TRO said: I insist on defending him, when I think the claims against him are unfair, unjust, inaccurate and ill-considered. thats your opinion and perigative but I think you are wrong 5 minutes ago, TRO said: Before, I go GH Please do not confuse my comments with me being happy with the standard of football, I am witnessing at Villa Park.....I am not. Please do not confuse my comments with me being unaware of what style of football we are currently playing and me being totally happy with it....I am not. Absolutely 5 minutes ago, TRO said: But please accept my reluctance to blame the manager for all our ills......because I am not. So you defend him because people critisize him which you believe is in principle wrong, so you defend him anyway - ignoring the possibility that the critisism may have both merit & credibility? 5 minutes ago, TRO said: I read all the posts on here and I am well aware of the opinions of many posters who are against Steve Bruce......I see and reflect on many, many of our problems, but I do not relate them ALL to him. Maybe you could consider, reconsidering to avoid defending him en masse over everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: No not cheap other posters have also comment on you evading the arguements against some of your points You related it directly to hogan I didnt see above comment So far this season, we have fielded at least one striker - Bruce has chosen to leave CF‘s of varying levels in the stands It‘s not ridiculous It is actually happenening I can not for the life of me understand why you say rubbish when it is exactly what he did Yes because IF you loan out a 20goal per season player, Bench or abuse another 20gps striker and have your very own 19gps out injured THE MANAGER ADJUSTS Especially when you have the likes of Adomah, Hourihane, Snod, Onomah, Grealish, Chester & Terry who you ca PLAY TO thats your opinion and perigative but I think you are wrong Absolutely So you defend him because people critisize him which you believe is in principle wrong, so you defend him anyway - ignoring the possibility that the critisism may have both merit & credibility? Maybe you could consider, reconsidering to avoid defending him en masse over everything Maybe you could consider and element of consideration that he is doing his best under the circumstances of a depleted team. I am sure those other posters who accuse me of evading the arguments are big and ugly enough to tell me themselves, without relying on you to......and attempting to strengthen your argument by doing so....they wouldn't be folk who resent me defending Bruce by the way.....would they......hardly witnesses to call GH Hogan.....We were talking about Hogan and you alluded to the managers inability to integrate him, to function.....I was using an example from a top player who's opinion I would value on such a subject, who said " you have to adapt when things are different or not what you are used to......seems plain talk to me. Who are these centre Forwards he has chosen to leave in the stands?.....on how many occasions?.....and you accuse me of evading arguments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyvilla Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Hogan hasn't had a season without serious injury since 2013 , it should be no suprise to those in charge that he never seems fit for us. He was always a major risk 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 16 hours ago, Grasshopper said: You have missunderstood. Those signings had varying levels of success/failure. The point is Signing a player then playing him in a different way to how they are used to/function better. THEN expecting them to adapt regardless of their physical stature being suited or not to that way He is still a goal scorer being asked to play at the top end of the pitch. Nothing can excuse his quite frankly abysmal first touch , poor ball retention, and inability to pass to a team mate. FFS samba was switched from CB to CF for 15 minutes and scored (and it was a low cross not a high ball) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 14 hours ago, mattyvilla said: Hogan hasn't had a season without serious injury since 2013 , it should be no suprise to those in charge that he never seems fit for us. He was always a major risk To be fair to him he hasn't missed that many games through injury. Since the emergence of Davis he has been out of the team by choice - up until the last couple games Davis has offered far more - even now Im not convinced swapping Davis for Hogan would be a good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Time to throw him in up front with Grealish in behind him, giving Davis a rest. If it's not working, second half bring on Davis to play alongside him. This is the month we need him to prove his worth the most, otherwise he needs selling in January to help fund a scoring striker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Weirdly I think an injury was just what he needed. Before the injury you could tell he was a bit hesitant and worried about the crowd. As ever, we build a player up whenever they are injured for a period of time. I think a lot of fans will be glad to see him back, especially with our injury problems. This may give him a bit of a boost and get some confidence back. Well here's hoping anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 I don't rate him and i blame him more than bruce for his inability to get into games. Having said that i'd start him with grealish behind saturday. We need a bit of a change upfront and to give davis a break. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 6 hours ago, hippo said: He is still a goal scorer being asked to play at the top end of the pitch. Nothing can excuse his quite frankly abysmal first touch , poor ball retention, and inability to pass to a team mate. FFS samba was switched from CB to CF for 15 minutes and scored (and it was a low cross not a high ball) I do not understand ..........what can not be understood from that. perfectly clear point, for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 3 hours ago, wilko154 said: Time to throw him in up front with Grealish in behind him, giving Davis a rest. If it's not working, second half bring on Davis to play alongside him. This is the month we need him to prove his worth the most, otherwise he needs selling in January to help fund a scoring striker. Even if we do it just isn't going to work, it takes more than putting a single player behind him. The way we go about our "football" across the whole side, especially with the calibre of players available is disgusting. Hogan is not going to work here, with Hazard, Messi and Neymar behind him he will still be competing for 90 yard punts from fullbacks and chasing lost causes punted into the channel, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 It seems we all want to see him at least be given a chance with a real play maker behind him. Problem is after our draw, Bruce said he shouldn't have changed up the team. So I fully expect Hogan and Grealish on the bench with Davis and Onomah continuing to do little to nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 3 hours ago, DCJonah said: I don't rate him and i blame him more than bruce for his inability to get into games. Having said that i'd start him with grealish behind saturday. We need a bit of a change upfront and to give davis a break. For Hogan I think you need someone behind him and decent delivery from wide areas, Hutton and Taylor don't provide that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Czechlad said: It seems we all want to see him at least be given a chance with a real play maker behind him. Problem is after our draw, Bruce said he shouldn't have changed up the team. So I fully expect Hogan and Grealish on the bench with Davis and Onomah continuing to do little to nothing. 100% I'd like to see. Snodgrass Grealish Adomah Hogan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 I think using Hogan as a stick to beat Bruce is getting tiring. It was a bad mistake. its done. Lets move on. I'm more concerned with the current issue of the team looking so inferior to opponents in certain games this season. This is a far bigger issue than a failed big signing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 6 hours ago, wilko154 said: Time to throw him in up front with Grealish in behind him, giving Davis a rest. If it's not working, second half bring on Davis to play alongside him. This is the month we need him to prove his worth the most, otherwise he needs selling in January to help fund a scoring striker. Not a bad shout this. Davis would probably get a lot of joy coming on for 20 minutes or so against a tired defence. I Bet if he came on and made a big impact many fans will go nuts at Bruce because he didn't start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted December 14, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted December 14, 2017 Yes, yes and yes. BUT everytime I have seen Hogan start or come on in different matches or in different formations I have thought "Yes, come on son, this is it" and sweet FA has followed. He has scored elsewhere regularly enough but it just feels utterly broken for him here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Oh yes, the Hogan thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 1 hour ago, sidcow said: Yes, yes and yes. BUT everytime I have seen Hogan start or come on in different matches or in different formations I have thought "Yes, come on son, this is it" and sweet FA has followed. He has scored elsewhere regularly enough but it just feels utterly broken for him here. Can't we just play the same players, style and formation we did that night he got 2 goals vs Wigan back in August? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 10 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Can't we just play the same players, style and formation we did that night he got 2 goals vs Wigan back in August? Too much intelligent logic there In the wonderful world of Bruceland there is a complete absence of conventional thinking 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Can't we just play the same players, style and formation we did that night he got 2 goals vs Wigan back in August? Oh if it was all that simple....... Edited December 15, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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