Steve Bruce

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Not sure he will build a stronger team - his hands will be tied and the squad will be weaker.

I am not so certain....weaker on paper, maybe.

He will have seen so much from this season and I think he will be well aware of our weaknesses, in a much more focused fashion.

What ever happens I think SB has learn't much from this season.

Fulham and Cardiff have made 2 inspired signings that has enhanced their campaigns.

Loans could still be an important part of next season, should we stay down.

[Eastie]

17 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am not so certain....weaker on paper, maybe.

He will have seen so much from this season and I think he will be well aware of our weaknesses, in a much more focused fashion.

What ever happens I think SB has learn't much from this season.

Fulham and Cardiff have made 2 inspired signings that has enhanced their campaigns.

Loans could still be an important part of next season, should we stay down.

No question loans could play a big part whichever division we are in next season. 

[TRO]

I think Steve Bruce should be judged on where we have come from to where we are.

The improvement for me is substantial, from a team that couldn't buy a win or defend a lead......to a team who can beat Wolves 4-1......sure there are still some iffy bits like Tuesday night......and I still think that consistency we search for is still not quite there.

I still think our team is not the finished article, for auto promotion, albeit, its still possible, but unlikely.

I would be happy to give him another season, should we fail.....based on how significant the improvement has been and how realistic further improvement can be gained.

my theory is don't disrupt or derail, improvement.

Ron saunders arrived in 1974 and set about restoring us, his team in '77 was arguably the best, subjective of course.....had we not stuck with his improvement we wouldn't have seen '80/'81 title or the following Euro cup.

while improvement is being made, we have to stay with it.

Edited March 15, 2018 by TRO

[DCJonah]

My opinion has changed a lot on Bruce. I didn't think he could get us promoted, now i think there is a good chance. I didn't think we should keep him if we were promoted, now i think we should. However my opinion on what should happen if we fail remains the same. I don't think he should be given the opportunity to try again, i think if we fail we need a new approach. 

He will have left a solid foundation and made us stronger than where we were, which i will credit him for, but a new man to build on those foundations is needed IMO. 

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

It doesn't take much for the tide of this thread to change does it. Had we have won on Tuesday it would have continued as it had done, since the Sheff Wednesday result, and been pretty euphoric. Now due to Tuesdays result/performance the managers future is being questioned.

I dare say there will be a few twists and turns yet this season and our position will change from 3rd to 4th to 2nd on a number of occasions.

For what it is worth I think regardless of what division we are in Steve Bruce will be manager next season but it is probably just as likely that we go up and he is replaced as it is that we stay down and we keep him on. For now though, given how much there is still to play for, we'd probably be best served simply focusing on the here and now and getting through this season before predicting what may happen next season in terms of the manager.

I think that's a reflection on how tight the fight for second place has been. 

[Eastie]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think Steve Bruce should be judged on where we have come from to where we are.

The improvement for me is substantial, from a team that couldn't buy a win or defend a lead......to a team who can beat Wolves 4-1......sure there are still some iffy bits like Tuesday night......and I still think that consistency we search for is still not quite there.

I still think our team is not the finished article, for auto promotion, albeit, its still possible, but unlikely.

I would be happy to give him another season, should we fail.....based on how significant the improvement has been and how realistic further improvement can be gained.

my theory is don't disrupt or derail, improvement.

Ron saunders arrived in 1974 and set about restoring us, his team in '77 was arguably the best, subjective of course.....had we not stuck with his improvement we wouldn't have seen '80/'81 title or the following Euro cup.

while improvement is being made, we have to stay with it.

The game has changed a lot from 40 yrs ago though tro - maybe not for the better.

[TRO]

57 minutes ago, Eastie said:

The game has changed a lot from 40 yrs ago though tro - maybe not for the better.

Yes, The game has changed in many ways.....but in certain ways, its the same.

Sure tactics have changed and space is not so plentiful....pitch is the same size within the rules/parameters, goals are the same size etc.

Many, many things are the same.

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

I think that's a reflection on how tight the fight for second place has been. 

I get that it is fine margins in terms of the league table but surely your opinion of the manager shouldn't change too much based on one result. We have taken 31 points from the last 39 available which is excellent. Had we won on Tuesday it would have been 34 from 39. Those 3 points in that context surely aren't game changers in terms of how you view the manager and the job he is doing.

I got to be honest I just don't get it. Not just in terms of Bruce but how it takes so little for people to become very negative and doom and gloom. On Tuesday some fans booed at half time. Booed a team that had won 10 of its last 12 games and three days earlier beaten the best team in the division. 

We have been through some tough times over the last 7 years or so but we can't continually fear the worst or over react to the slightest set back. It does no good at all.

Edited March 15, 2018 by markavfc40

[Eastie]

9 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I get that it is fine margins in terms of the league table but surely your opinion of the manager shouldn't change too much based on one result. We have taken 31 points from the last 39 available which is excellent. Had we won on Tuesday it would have been 34 from 39. Those 3 points in that context surely aren't game changers in terms of how you view the manager and the job he is doing.

I got to be honest I just don't get it. Not just in terms of Bruce but how it takes so little for people to become very negative and doom and gloom. On Tuesday some fans booed at half time. Booed a team that had won 10 of its last 12 games and three days earlier beaten the best team in the division. 

We have been through some tough times over the last 7 years or so but we can't continually fear the worst or over react to the slightest set back. It does no good at all.

Our form has been good - it’s remarkable that Fulham and Cardiff are both on their best runs  in years otherwise we would be in 2nd place 

Tuesday was disappointing and emotions low straight after the game - always looks a bit better in the cold light of day .

many on here wear their hearts on their sleeves and I  can see why there was that reaction - however what’s done is done and we must look ahead . 

[Vive_La_Villa]

32 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

On Tuesday some fans booed at half time. Booed a team that had won 10 of its last 12 games and three days earlier beaten the best team in the division. 

That was just ridiculous. It was good to see they got drowned out by a loud encouraging roar. 

Although we have won so many games this seasons there has still been quite a few games we just do not look convincing. It’s almost like they are running in mud at time. Maybe it’s fatigue.

I don’t know what it is but it does seem every few games we look really poor. 

[blandy]

11 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Maybe it’s fatigue

I think that's a big part of it. The number of games everyone plays in this league is mad. It's mental as well as physical fatigue, IMO.

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

Let this stat sink in, which shows how far we have come:

Aston Villa When scoring first 17/18:

Wins: 18

Drawn : 2

Lost: 0

That is the biggest change in mentality which Bruce deserves a lot of credit for. Yes we're in a lower division, but its always been the Villa way to throw games away, especially in the final minutes, for years and years, even when we were decent in the prem. The 2 games we were pegged back in was against Hull on the opening day (should have been out of sight in the first half), and that 2-2 with Sheff Utd (Jedinak). Add into that we have come from behind twice to win (QPR away, Sheff Wed away). Made of much more steel this season. And Villa Park has been somewhat of a fortress since Bruce came in too, which also has not been the case for years. Done a decent job I suppose the old boy. B+ 

[AntrimBlack]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I guess you could give him an improved contract or sack him based on the last 2 games.

You cannot judge a managers job acurately based on an individual game.....a managers job is more based on a trend or fair period of time.

with the improvement Steve Bruce has managed his job is safe, he won't be anywhere close to being happy with Tuesday night.

you can talk about the manager.....but JT with all his accolades managed to muster a diabolical attempt to deny a "wet behind the ears" midfielder to score.

it happens, its shouldn't, but its football and the unpredictable face of it.

Not my point, Tro. I would never judge a manager's job based on one game.

I was just surprised that anyone would be surprised by an adverse reaction to Tuesday night after Saturdays amazing performance. That was what I was commenting on.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

I got to be honest I just don't get it. Not just in terms of Bruce but how it takes so little for people to become very negative and doom and gloom. On Tuesday some fans booed at half time. Booed a team that had won 10 of its last 12 games and three days earlier beaten the best team in the division. 

We have been through some tough times over the last 7 years or so but we can't continually fear the worst or over react to the slightest set back. It does no good at all.

I keep seeing this but to be honest, I heard the opposite, I heard fans cheering them off the pitch at half time.

Then again that was on TV so I might have missed it.

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

I get that it is fine margins in terms of the league table but surely your opinion of the manager shouldn't change too much based on one result. We have taken 31 points from the last 39 available which is excellent. Had we won on Tuesday it would have been 34 from 39. Those 3 points in that context surely aren't game changers in terms of how you view the manager and the job he is doing.

I got to be honest I just don't get it. Not just in terms of Bruce but how it takes so little for people to become very negative and doom and gloom. On Tuesday some fans booed at half time. Booed a team that had won 10 of its last 12 games and three days earlier beaten the best team in the division. 

We have been through some tough times over the last 7 years or so but we can't continually fear the worst or over react to the slightest set back. It does no good at all.

I don't think they are though. No one is calling for him to be sacked. The discussions based on keeping him or not are about next season and around if we get promoted or not, not just that game. 

[VillanousOne]

2 hours ago, DCJonah said:

My opinion has changed a lot on Bruce. I didn't think he could get us promoted, now i think there is a good chance. I didn't think we should keep him if we were promoted, now i think we should. However my opinion on what should happen if we fail remains the same. I don't think he should be given the opportunity to try again, i think if we fail we need a new approach. 

He will have left a solid foundation and made us stronger than where we were, which i will credit him for, but a new man to build on those foundations is needed IMO. 

I agree with so much of this.

But the solid foundation, is only based on how far the club has come from despair to respectability, once all the loans are gone there is not a solid squad left to fight for promotion next season if we stay in the championship.

Maybe FFP isn't as bad as we think, maybe we can keep some players on loan, but if Bruce is saying we can't offer Hutton a new contract or any player then not sure we can keep all the loan players unless we are paying a small percentage of their wages.

I am not against replacing Bruce or keeping him to be honest as I don't feel we will go up next season whoever manages us.
 

Edited March 15, 2018 by VillanousOne

[striker]

7 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

No promotion would be a total failure and it would be very hard to make the case for Bruce staying. 

There will be those who will make it though (they’re doing it now rehashing the stability argument) and that’s their prerogative but for me one of Bruce’s failings this season is not utilising the squad at his disposal.

The persistence on using Onomah until lately instead of giving Hayes more of a chance and not using O’Hare more when Grealish was injured has cost Villa points. It was also very obvious to me that Bjarnson was a decent DM in the making some time ago and would have added more energy to the midfield yet it took the arrival of Agnew to recognise that.

In essence Bruce has cost Villa points this season by not having the guts to change it when needed and he did it again (on his own admittance) against QPR.

Yes the criticism is harsh when you consider the recent run and the result against Wolves but those performances should convince us that Villa were capable of more this season if the manager had gotten the team selections consistently right.

Edited March 15, 2018 by striker

[VillanousOne]

33 minutes ago, striker said:

There will be those who will make it though (they’re doing it now rehashing the stability argument) and that’s their prerogative but for me one of Bruce’s failings this season is not utilising the squad at his disposal.

The persistence on using Onomah until lately instead of giving Hayes more of a chance and not using O’Hare more when Grealish was injured has cost Villa points. It was also very obvious to me that Bjarnson was a decent DM in the making some time ago and would have added more energy to the midfield yet it took the arrival of Agnew to recognise that.

In essence Bruce has cost Villa points this season by not having the guts to change it when needed and he did it again (on his own admittance) against QPR.

Yes the criticism is harsh when you consider the recent run and the result against Wolves but those performances should convince us that Villa were capable of more this season if the manager had gotten the team selections consistently right.

But does any manager get it right? Do the fans always think they know better?

MON was meant to be one of the best managers we had, yet I remember him buying players then never playing them or falling out with them, he had one way of playing and 11 players he trusted to deliver that, if any where injured or more obvious players available to resolve issues, he never did follow any kind of logic outside of Plan A and about 13 players in a large squad who he would play with.

I feel that now Bruce has roughly his best 11 available or has recently he has set up the team to play more positively, but until that point and also if we get any injuries then he just reverts to negativity and playing it horridly safe. He will always turn to defenders and central midfielders to replace attacking players which is why we have failed to win so many matches.

Edited March 15, 2018 by VillanousOne

[terrytini]

7 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I think the future of the manager should be determined by just that, the future.

If we don't go up this season, but the board and Xia think that Bruce will get us promoted next season, then he should stay.

He shouldn't be sacked purely for not meeting his target this season IF they believe he will achieve the target next season. That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

Managers shouldn't just be rewarded/punished for what they've done. It should be for what they are going to do.

 

(and before I get jumped on, I would have this opinion in the total opposite situation too. As in if we do get promoted, but the board don't think Bruce can keep us up next season, then he should be sacked. He shouldn't be rewarded with another year if he's not up to it)

Said it much better than I did, agree 100%

[sheepyvillian]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I think Steve Bruce should be judged on where we have come from to where we are.

The improvement for me is substantial, from a team that couldn't buy a win or defend a lead......to a team who can beat Wolves 4-1......sure there are still some iffy bits like Tuesday night......and I still think that consistency we search for is still not quite there.

I still think our team is not the finished article, for auto promotion, albeit, its still possible, but unlikely.

I would be happy to give him another season, should we fail.....based on how significant the improvement has been and how realistic further improvement can be gained.

my theory is don't disrupt or derail, improvement.

Ron saunders arrived in 1974 and set about restoring us, his team in '77 was arguably the best, subjective of course.....had we not stuck with his improvement we wouldn't have seen '80/'81 title or the following Euro cup.

while improvement is being made, we have to stay with it.

Saunders took us up in his first season. For me, as far as the manager goes, it's promotion or failure. The money he's spent with the talent at his disposal we should expect nothing less than promotion .

That was the sole reason for his appointment. It has to be, for the good name that is Aston Villa, this season. I'm not interested in give him another season, the same was being said at the end of the last one.