Eastie Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 38 minutes ago, TRO said: its anyones call I go with "a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush" Saucy old crow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 2 hours ago, TRO said: I hear this one a fair bit.....just don't see it myself. Interesting to know what you see. Everytime I’ve watched Brentford I’ve liked the way they try to play a passing game. It hasn’t always worked because they haven’t got the best players in the league yet they still try to play in a certain way which when works is easy on the eye. I’d be interested to see what he could do with better players at his disposal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 6 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I don't think that would have made a blind bit of difference tbh Yep, no disagreement there. As I said earlier I think our biggest problem last might was motivation/complacency related Are you sure about motivation ? That's an odd word to use given that we are supposedly going for automatic promotion - I also don't believe fatigue came into play - now complacency is an entirely different ball game ( no pun intended ) and one that I think you are right about 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 14, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dave J said: Are you sure about motivation ? That's an odd word to use given that we are supposedly going for automatic promotion - I also don't believe fatigue came into play - now complacency is an entirely different ball game ( no pun intended ) and one that I think you are right about No I'm not sure. Maybe it was the wrong word to use. I guess the point I was trying to make was that I don't think the issue was tactics or formations. It was how the players went about the game. They didn't play in top gear, far from it. Complacency, motivation, doesn't matter. They didn't approach it in the right way. That's not absolving Bruce at all. He is responsible for instilling that in the players. But they do have to take their slice of the blame too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 If he succeeds then great - I think he will - but if we fail to go up I can’t imagine the Club would want rid, and rightly so. There is no way we would be better off getting a new guy in, who then wants to change everything, than we would be with Bruce building on what’s here now. In my view it’d be plain bonkers to get rid....particularly as our Form for a good while has been good enough to go up next year. For once we can have a steady ship and a ready squad. Were going up this season anyway- our firepower will blast us through after the break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 28 minutes ago, terrytini said: If he succeeds then great - I think he will - but if we fail to go up I can’t imagine the Club would want rid, and rightly so. There is no way we would be better off getting a new guy in, who then wants to change everything, than we would be with Bruce building on what’s here now. In my view it’d be plain bonkers to get rid....particularly as our Form for a good while has been good enough to go up next year. For once we can have a steady ship and a ready squad. Were going up this season anyway- our firepower will blast us through after the break. I must completely disagree with all due respect - I have said before that when Bruce came in, his remit was still to get promotion otherwise why would the club have moved so soon to fire RDM? And without any shadow of doubt his remit for this season is promotion. I do feel that unless promotion is achieved then he must go as he will have failed for successive seasons imo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, Dave J said: I must completely disagree with all due respect - I have said before that when Bruce came in, his remit was still to get promotion otherwise why would the club have moved so soon to fire RDM? And without any shadow of doubt his remit for this season is promotion. I do feel that unless promotion is achieved then he must go as he will have failed for successive seasons imo Yes he will have failed in his aim. So dock him some wages or make him run round Villa Park in the nude, or whatever punishment you like.... but don’t put the Club through the upheaval of another Managerial change - and all the player changes that will come with it - just to gamble on a new guy against a guy who - at worst - will have come very close this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 I would add, my view would be different if we were going backwards, but we aren’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: No I'm not sure. Maybe it was the wrong word to use. I guess the point I was trying to make was that I don't think the issue was tactics or formations. It was how the players went about the game. They didn't play in top gear, far from it. Complacency, motivation, doesn't matter. They didn't approach it in the right way. That's not absolving Bruce at all. He is responsible for instilling that in the players. But they do have to take their slice of the blame too. First half we did ok. 2 nil flattered them but we weren’t no where near the tempo we needed and that’s why they’d scored. 2nd half I expected Bruce to get into them then we’d make a fist of it but then he lost the plot and went to 3 at the back. Bruce was pitch perfect v Wolves and he aswell as the player were not at it last night we’d can’t afford it to happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, terrytini said: If he succeeds then great - I think he will - but if we fail to go up I can’t imagine the Club would want rid, and rightly so. There is no way we would be better off getting a new guy in, who then wants to change everything, than we would be with Bruce building on what’s here now. In my view it’d be plain bonkers to get rid....particularly as our Form for a good while has been good enough to go up next year. For once we can have a steady ship and a ready squad. Were going up this season anyway- our firepower will blast us through after the break. We won’t have a steady ship or a ready squad though. Johnstone Hutton Terry Snodgrass will all go. We will have to sell players to replace others and to navigate FFP. If we could keep the squad together I’d be ok with Bruce staying but if it’s decimated id want a manager that would use our kids. Bruce isn’t that man. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 6 hours ago, Rob182 said: Massive repercussions, yes. 'Chaos', no, not for me. Looking at it in an extremely positive light, imagine if next season sees us blood Bree as our first choice right back, Davis as a first choice striker and Doyle-Hayes as a first choice midfielder, all coming on leaps and bounds. Teams have done it before, mixing experience and quality (Hourihane, Grealish, Adomah) with promising youngsters and still finished in the automatic places. You think Bruce will blood a bunch of our youngsters? Not going to happen. There would be more `experience' brought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, terrytini said: If he succeeds then great - I think he will - but if we fail to go up I can’t imagine the Club would want rid, and rightly so. There is no way we would be better off getting a new guy in, who then wants to change everything, than we would be with Bruce building on what’s here now. In my view it’d be plain bonkers to get rid....particularly as our Form for a good while has been good enough to go up next year. For once we can have a steady ship and a ready squad. Were going up this season anyway- our firepower will blast us through after the break. It’s unlikely our squad will be as strong next season as it is this season due to FFP. We will have to sell our better players to reduce wages. If Bruce can’t get this squad up then we shouldn’t bank on him getting next seasons squad up either. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 34 minutes ago, terrytini said: Yes he will have failed in his aim. So dock him some wages or make him run round Villa Park in the nude, or whatever punishment you like.... but don’t put the Club through the upheaval of another Managerial change - and all the player changes that will come with it - just to gamble on a new guy against a guy who - at worst - will have come very close this season. Or we could just leave Bruce in charge and run the risk of a third season of disappointment ? The truth is we just don't know either way do we? But I feel his position would be untenable and personally I'm not sure he would have earned another shot at promotion - also I would imagine that a poor start with Bruce in charge in the championship could lead to a toxic state of affair - for me it's promotion or bust 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 5 hours ago, TRO said: I think the very opposite. His first season, was a major confidence rebuild. This season has been a significant improvement, but i still don't think we are quite strong enough in certain positions mainly centre mid and full back, we may need a dominant centre half particularly in the air, if JT leaves. I think Steve Bruce has shown improvement, it would be folly to put a halt to that. i still think he has had to come from such a back marker as opposed to pulis who has had a stronger squad to take over. I feel sure he knows our weakness and will remedy it as opposed to another manager, who has to start all over again. The last few days has been a wake up call.....but he has shown he can out think the best of managers......what it had shown Imo he is short of certain types of players to deal with the physical side when called on to tackle quintessential championship sides. I would definately keep him in charge......anyway, we haven't got the funds to benefit the sort of manager we think we want. I admire your loyalty, Tro, but Bruce will have been here most of last season and a large chunk of this season. If he does not get us promoted, in my opinion he does not deserve another season in the Championship. I think we would just be marking time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 5 hours ago, TRO said: Not sure about the going up, I think we will go up like Huddersfield, in the play offs.....on our day, we have proved we can beat anyone in this league when we have a full team.....we struggle with the day to day scraping. However, where I don't think we are strong enough is ......We allow ourselves to be knocked out of our stride much to easily, we can tend to be a bit lightweight in certain situations.....teams who are much less talented than us, can carve out nothing opportunities very easily through nothing more than endeavour......its not an endearing trait and certainly not a tuned to a team searching automatic promotion We may still go up through the play offs, I hope, but I am not as confident now as I had become over the last couple of months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 5 hours ago, Eastie said: I think we might as well stick with Bruce promotion or not - if we don’t go up then there will be half this team gone in the summer , the younger lads will get their chance next season if we are in this division as our hands will be tied financially . I don't think they will under Bruce. His modus operandi to get promoted is buying or loaning experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poitier Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Bruce hasn't built anything for the future here. Our own youngsters have barely had a sniff of the first team, with the enforced exception of Davis. He has gambled everything on well paid experienced/end of career players to get us up, so if he fails in that this season he hasn't left us with much to work with. Untenable position, definitely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 4 hours ago, TRO said: I just could not disagree more, but respect your view. In the cold light of day he presided over a team that had just beaten the league leaders comprehensively.......not just the result, out played them at times. I am as frustrated and baffled as the next Villa Fan.....I have a suspicion, whats wrong but thats all it is and its a general thing not just about last Night or Saturday. I know it sounds crazy, but I don't think the team is still quite right for Auto Promotion.....just my take.....Nothing to do with the managers selections or set up or substitutions, I don't think we have the right players available in the squad for certain situations like last night......maybe something he will review. But how many windows will he need to get it right while we stagnate in the Championship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 I honestly don’t know what we should do about Bruce’s contract come end of season. It depends on what happens between now and then, and our FFP status. But we can’t change until the end of this season anyway, and we can’t pretend he’s done flawlessly or abysmally. He’s been somewhere in the middle of those two extremes. And he’s been making progress. But his shortcomings are serious. I would have replaced him several times before we got here. But it would be foolish to change now. We’re stuck with whatever is the best he can produce out of this season. I still hope it’s automatic promotion. Like I always have. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 23 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: I admire your loyalty, Tro, but Bruce will have been here most of last season and a large chunk of this season. If he does not get us promoted, in my opinion he does not deserve another season in the Championship. I think we would just be marking time. I agree entirely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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