Steve Bruce

[KJT123]

 

[srsmithusa]

delighted with the 3 points.  I hope it's a sign of success to come.

[terrytini]

2 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

After spending £££££'s on players from either a league above or the best from the league we are in. Coupled with S"4promotions"B, the biggest pull in the league and an owner doing seemingly everything he can (not forgetting a CEO with PL background) I "expect" the other teams in this league to be "trying to compete with us". Not the other way around.

If Bruce was really worth his salt as a promotionist, he should have got us up last season, he failed. The recent 7 results (not 46) are more down to the players than him.

I've not disagreed with you for a while GH but I disagree on this bit.

Weve had good players all along. The problem has been twofold in that (a) Bruce hasn't instilled anything resembling a style into them and (b) he's been too cautious, too defensive.

Whether it lasts or not is another issue ( I doubt it) but last nights performance and to a lesser extent the weekend ( I don't go along with those who have found others as well) showed evidence of a style ( ok not to everyone's tastes - actually I quite like it) and more crucially Bruce removing the caution.

That is down to him - imo Late in the day - and has produced results.

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by terrytini

[BOF]

17 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Weve had good players all along. The problem has been twofold in that (a) Bruce hasn't instilled anything resembling a style into them and (b) he's been too cautious, too defensive.

That is down to him - imo Late in the day - and has produced results.

Yep, agreed.  And to bring that point and something @OutByEaster? has mentioned elsewhere together for a moment, I think one player and one stroke of (mis-)fortune has been the key to it all.  That player is Keinan Davis.  Not his ability, per se (although he has plenty of that), but the style of forward that he is.  His ability to play with his back to goal, knock a ball down and bring the midfield into the game has singularly transformed this team from being a disjointed front 6 that had a good (but over-worked) defence, into what is now a cohesive attacking force where the quality and goals that we've had in midfield is allowed to do its thing.

We knew the raw materials were there and we couldn't quite figure out how all that quality could be on the same pitch and be 'performing' the way they were early on.  But Davis was a key piece to that jigsaw.

The stroke of luck was that Davis got into the side through someone else's injury, but that is not a stick you can beat Bruce with because history is littered with examples of players seizing their opportunity through someone else's misfortune (Harry Kane says 'Hi').  In fact it's often the best way for a junior to break through.

[mykeyb]

14 hours ago, terrytini said:

Humble Pie !!!!!!

The Manager finally starts doing what some have been asking for for months and people mention humble pie !!

Thats a joke.

Im just glad he finally appears emboldened.

If that means he can get us promoted ( which I still strongly doubt) great - that's a possible future and if we succeed he gets the credit..but it doesn't alter the mess or the wasted time and effort that's been the recent past.

How does the old saying go 1 swallow doesnt make a summer........Adomah didnt even make the bench 4 games ago and Bacuna was preferred over Hourihane for the first game of the season, arguably 2 of our better performing players over the last couple of games.

I am pleased that Bruce has us playing as he has and the results have improved but he still only has us sitting in 8th place so its a bit early for those who were prepared to give him more time to claim any kind of victory. I still have massive doubts about his ability to get us promoted but will cherish each win as they happen and would be extremely happy to be proven wrong by Bruce again......I didnt rate Johnstone as a keeper, looks like he was right and I was wrong on that one.

[TRO]

5 hours ago, striker said:

Haha mate good one.

Snodgrass was poor in his first couple of games yet there were signs that the team was already starting to improve when Bruce changed it to 4-4-2. That and not just one player for me was the catalyst to better form and results.

However I would suggest waiting until Villa's fixture list pits them against better teams in the division before thinking that Villa have finally turned a corner. Remember most felt or expected to get wins on the board due to recent opposition and Bolton will be no different.

It is though a very welcome sight indeed to see Villa getting points on the board and starting to climb the table while playing more attacking football.

Long may that continue.

I don't think you quite got what i was inferring......either that or you disagree.

I meant that snoddy just added that bit of balance that we was missing and it seems to have sparked everyone off, his threaded balls are sublime( no literally ).....It has been said KD has been a big influence and i would agree with that.....Hourihane looks like the player we bought, absolute transformation.

you too are right IMO about the 4-4-2.

I was just merely saying that i think he has lit the touch paper to help make it click.

[TheStagMan]

All this talk of humble pie is just as laughable as the hysteria comments.

Yes, we have done well in the last few games, but we really must consider the opposition we have been playing. If we are serious about being promoted, games against these types of teams (and good wins against them) should be bread and butter for us.

I am very happy that we have won, I am very happy that we scored 4 - absolutely, but I am not going to get excited just yet. We have had false dawns before, and until we play the tougher teams and put in convincing performances against them, I reserve the right to be skeptical.

Credit where it is due though, and the last few games have definitely been an improvement on the dross served up during Bruce's reign. I hope that he has genuinely seen the light and realized that we are not the underdogs and thus should not act like we are. He has done what is needed, and his job should be safe for as long as he keeps this up, he now has an excellent opportunity to kick on and get us up the league.

I'm hoping that this is the start of a run for us. If Bruce can get us into the top two by Christmas and keep us there, then I will accept that he has turned things around, until then I remain unconvinced (although I am now a little more optimistic than 3 weeks ago). 

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by TheStagMan

[TRO]

31 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

How does the old saying go 1 swallow doesnt make a summer........Adomah didnt even make the bench 4 games ago and Bacuna was preferred over Hourihane for the first game of the season, arguably 2 of our better performing players over the last couple of games.

I am pleased that Bruce has us playing as he has and the results have improved but he still only has us sitting in 8th place so its a bit early for those who were prepared to give him more time to claim any kind of victory. I still have massive doubts about his ability to get us promoted but will cherish each win as they happen and would be extremely happy to be proven wrong by Bruce again......I didnt rate Johnstone as a keeper, looks like he was right and I was wrong on that one.

what we all say, is just opinions....who is interested in winning victories on an internet forum.

I change my opinions on Villa ,I have done for over 50 years.....I never fancied Des Bremner, until I realised what an Idiot I was......I actually told him face to face and he laughed....it was part of my football education.

Its on the pitch we all want the same thing.....Victories.

There will always be some fans who will never accept Steve Bruce, so what.....That is just human nature.

Lets just ALL hope we can keep this form up for as long as possible.....and get the objective of promotion.

Edited September 27, 2017 by TRO

[Michael118]

The emergence of Davis, the return of Kodjia and the signing of Snodgrass has saved him. 

3 players who fill key roles, fit into his style of play and and have either too much quality or promise to be held down by his mediocre management.

Whether it can be maintained against better teams and if it will be enough to get us promoted we'll have to wait and see.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Michael118

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

All this talk of humble pie is just as laughable as the hysteria comments.

Yes, we have done well in the last few games, but we really must consider the opposition we have been playing. If we are serious about being promoted, games against these types of teams (and good wins against them) should be bread and butter for us.

I am very happy that we have won, I am very happy that we scored 4 - absolutely, but I am not going to get excited just yet. We have had false dawns before, and until we play the tougher teams and put in convincing performances against them, I reserve the right to be skeptical.

Credit where it is due though, and the last few games have definitely been an improvement on the dross served up during Bruce's reign. I hope that he has genuinely seen the light and realized that we are not the underdogs and thus should not act like we are. He has done what is needed, and his job should be safe for as long as he keeps this up, he now has an excellent opportunity to kick on and get us up the league.

I'm hoping that this is the start of a run for us. If Bruce can get us into the top two by Christmas and keep us there, then I will accept that he has turned things around, until then I remain unconvinced (although I am now a little more optimistic than 3 weeks ago). 

 

I am taking nothing away from the teams we have just played.....but i guess we all agree, we need to test ourselves against tougher opposition.....bring it on.

[screwdriver]

kodjia is almost playing in the hole against forest. With Davis pushed right up to hold it up for the on rushing Jimmy danger. Although it only happend twice against Forest the two moves happened cos of Kodjia in his new deep role. Bruce is a tactical genius!

[Rodders]

2 hours ago, mattjpa said:

Form in football is generally considered to constitute the last few games. Most form guides list the previous 6 games. Even before last night we were won 3 drawn 3. 12 points from 6 games, 2 points per game, play-off/promotion form. (In the interests of a fair response, I have discounted last nights result). 

But, as you requested, this is me letting you know promotion form has kicked in. And you are right by the way, its a lot quieter in here today

 

 

the signs are cautiously positive. But we did have a solid start under Bruce last season before an horrendous mid season collapse and then another solid run of wins. Now, I do think we are stronger than last season and I would admit I think it unlikely we will repeat the mid season disaster this time around, but equally, in terms of games to judge form - our recent subset of teams has only included one ( Middlesborough ) likely to be in the top 6 come the season's end, and in that fixture we were rubbish against 10 men for a long time. Last night was great, and next we could extend that easily against a side who still haven't won a match all season ( we really should put them to the sword ). If we do,  I think we can say we're proving an ability to be clinical against the lesser sides of the league. Which is great, not dropping points here is vital. But to make that step to the top lot we need to not have the horrific performances as seen v Cardiff and Reading for example, or even the pathetic dislpay against Brentford, i.e. sides with confidence or know-how when it comes to developing footballing talent.

Last night suggests we may well have belatedly decide to join in on the playing football theme, but as was the case with the Norwich match, it does need to be backed up against the better sides. I am very happy with the last few wins, always am but horses need to be held right now. Let's see how we do against the better teams.

And on the quiet thing, there's always far more to disect when things go wrong than when things go well.

[NurembergVillan]

I posted the humble pie gif straight after the match last night, and directed it at myself.

It's not to say that he's proven everyone wrong, because clearly that's not the case.  We have some green shoots, and reasons for optimism, nothing more.

But speaking for myself, I just didn't think it was in his locker to set us up like this, to have us trying this type of football and to have us scoring goals.  As much as we can all say "it was only Burton", I didn't think we'd be spanking ANYONE 4-0 on their own patch.  It was Burton's heaviest home defeat at this level, and only their second defeat in about 7 league games.

For me personally, it was a delicious slice of humble pie.  It wasn't the whole pie.  It wasn't "look how wrong I was, we're going to stroll to the title".  But it was definitely something that, until 3 games ago, I thought wasn't going to happen at all under this manager.

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, TheStagMan said:

All this talk of humble pie is just as laughable as the hysteria comments.

Yes, we have done well in the last few games, but we really must consider the opposition we have been playing. If we are serious about being promoted, games against these types of teams (and good wins against them) should be bread and butter for us.

I am very happy that we have won, I am very happy that we scored 4 - absolutely, but I am not going to get excited just yet. We have had false dawns before, and until we play the tougher teams and put in convincing performances against them, I reserve the right to be skeptical.

Sort of true to an extent, but the main thing is just beating sides.  It's all well and good looking at the quality of teams "on paper" and assessing how well you're doing but some teams just seem to be stronger than they "should be".  For example, Burton really aren't that bad at home.  Their results so far have been:

Burton 0 - 1 Cardiff
Burton 2 - 1 Blues
Burton 1 - 1 Sheff Wed
Burton 2 - 1 Fulham
Burton 0 - 4 Villa

I mean, just look at how much of an outlier that last result is.

By all means, don't get too excited at beating Barnsley, Forest and Burton.  However, in the same breath, don't write these games off as "should win" games.  Even the weak/poor teams in the Championship (possible exception of Rotherham last season) have strong qualities in part.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

On 9/18/2017 at 09:26, hippo said:

keep it tight at the back and nick what u can up front

Nothing wrong with that IMO.  That will get most teams with a similar quality defence as our's recently would get promoted from this division,  it does not need to look nice. 

We just need to get promoted and I think this is a viable way to achieve that based on recent performances especially.

[DCJonah]

3 hours ago, mattjpa said:

Form in football is generally considered to constitute the last few games. Most form guides list the previous 6 games. Even before last night we were won 3 drawn 3. 12 points from 6 games, 2 points per game, play-off/promotion form. (In the interests of a fair response, I have discounted last nights result). 

But, as you requested, this is me letting you know promotion form has kicked in. And you are right by the way, its a lot quieter in here today

 

Well again, it's you picking a sample of form and calling it promotion form. Funny how promotion form links with a points total and a league position thats isn't in promotion places and an overall points average that won't lead to promotion. But yeah its promotion form. 

So blues win a few games and they're in title winning form and we should be worried about them?

We are in good form, I hope that form leads to promotion winning form. When it does I'll happily acknowledge it. 

 

[Grasshopper]

Re: Humble Pie

After 46 games and we are top 2

or

we have won the playoffs

and not a millisecond before.

Then DrT can sack him 

[TRO]

4 hours ago, terrytini said:

I've not disagreed with you for a while GH but I disagree on this bit.

Weve had good players all along. The problem has been twofold in that (a) Bruce hasn't instilled anything resembling a style into them and (b) he's been too cautious, too defensive.

Whether it lasts or not is another issue ( I doubt it) but last nights performance and to a lesser extent the weekend ( I don't go along with those who have found others as well) showed evidence of a style ( ok not to everyone's tastes - actually I quite like it) and more crucially Bruce removing the caution.

That is down to him - imo Late in the day - and has produced results.

 

Well said Terry.....but can you not see that posts like GH's  just wind folk up.....and just add fuel to the flames of disagreement....as do the others with the contrasting view.

GH is entitled to his opinion....but as we all know, this intransigence.....just invites further intransigence in the opposite direction.

We all know SB is not in the top ten of world managers.....but for where we fell to a pragmatic style like is was, was probably the best bet......don't forget, the club, the behind the scenes had problems, not just on the pitch.

I have always liked Neil Warnock but i know his limitations just like our Steve.

He has had a difficult job and the things we have been calling for, perhaps he felt was too soon, and that more time was required, before he succumbed to our pleas.....its not a get out of jail free card, just an opinion.

we all need to respect each others opinions are get on with the job of enjoying Aston Villa rise like a phoenix from the ashes.

Edited September 27, 2017 by TRO

[macandally]

18 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

We'll never get anywhere under Bruce, all 4 goals and all 3 wins are just a fluke eh @Grasshopper

 

At this rate I think a lot of people will be eating a lot of humble pie, brilliant. 

Let's see where we are come Christmas eh?  For me he has just done what people have been slating him for over the last 40 games.  Get on the front foot, stop being so defensive and pick a settled team for a few weeks.  Look what that brings, pity it has taken so long, we might already be a league above!

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Well again, it's you picking a sample of form and calling it promotion form. Funny how promotion form links with a points total and a league position thats isn't in promotion places and an overall points average that won't lead to promotion. But yeah its promotion form. 

 

Yes. Hence "form".