Steve Bruce

[astonaidan]

6 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

This is odd. If we take away 8 wins we don't have a play off ppg. That's not exactly surprising is it. If we take away 8 defeats we'd be on to win the league. Means about as much as your example.

Stevo has done a ppg based on actual results not taking away results which don't fit the agenda. Seems more reliable to me.

Well his ppg for game means we dont have a play off position. Im merely stating take away the 8 games as a example to his stating "even with christmas" as a reason why we would make play offs. The 8 games come at a time when a lot of teams have nothing to play for. You can live in denial about this if you want

[astonaidan]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

No. I don't. This is like the 4th post where I've specifically emphasised that I am NOT ignoring it.

You use it a reason why we could do better, where I use it a the winning spell as a reason it wont happen again. Anyways you ppg is not play off position either way, so your point makes no sense

[striker]

I like Bruce. I like his demeanor and honesty which frequently reflects the opinion of the fans that to dominate matches Villa need to hold on to the ball better. He signed midfielders to do exactly that but it hasn't happened yet. The players still look anxious and hesitant on the ball probably because of the expectations surrounding the club.

Now that will wash with me for the rest of this season due to the amount of change and time for the manager to get his ideas across but by the start of next season the players and manager should have settled and Villa should, with a few more additions, be looking at automatic promotion.

I still tend to think though that Villa sit too deep and need to be more offensive. You cannot continually rely on the odd goal to win matches because somewhere along the line you must be able to compensate for player mistakes and good play from the opposition even in the Championship.

I also feel that Xia moved the goalposts for Bruce when it became apparent that Villa were not going to make the playoffs this season. There's no doubt in my opinion that was the expectation when Bruce arrived at Villa but I do not see any further allowances being made for Bruce next season. He and his team will have to start well and all of us hope that he will do that but if Villa are languishing in mid table by Christmas then I do not see Wyness or Xia tolerating that.    

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, astonaidan said:

You use it a reason why we could do better, where I use it a the winning spell as a reason it wont happen again. Anyways you ppg is not play off position either way, so your point makes no sense

Yes, i use it as a reason why I believe we will do better. If you disagree that's fine.

But that is nowhere near the same as ignoring it. 

Our PPG under Bruce would give us 72 points over a season. That wasn't good enough last season for the play offs, but it WAS good enough in two of the last four seasons. 
So, like I said, it is "more or less" play off form.

That was my only point. I mean I even added that we should be aiming for the automatic spots and that's what we should be expecting!

[AJ]

4 minutes ago, striker said:

I like Bruce. I like his demeanor and honesty which frequently reflects the opinion of the fans that to dominate matches Villa need to hold on to the ball better. He signed midfielders to do exactly that but it hasn't happened yet. The players still look anxious and hesitant on the ball probably because of the expectations surrounding the club.

Now that will wash with me for the rest of this season due to the amount of change and time for the manager to get his ideas across but by the start of next season the players and manager should have settled and Villa should, with a few more additions, be looking at automatic promotion.

I still tend to think though that Villa sit too deep and need to be more offensive. You cannot continually rely on the odd goal to win matches because somewhere along the line you must be able to compensate for player mistakes and good play from the opposition even in the Championship.

I also feel that Xia moved the goalposts for Bruce when it became apparent that Villa were not going to make the playoffs this season. There's no doubt in my opinion that was the expectation when Bruce arrived at Villa but I do not see any further allowances being made for Bruce next season. He and his team will have to start well and all of us hope that he will do that but if Villa are languishing in mid table by Christmas then I do not see Wyness or Xia tolerating that.    

Yep, yep, and yep. Agree with your post, and it is where I am at.

[DaveAV1]

7 minutes ago, striker said:

I like Bruce. I like his demeanor and honesty which frequently reflects the opinion of the fans that to dominate matches Villa need to hold on to the ball better. He signed midfielders to do exactly that but it hasn't happened yet. The players still look anxious and hesitant on the ball probably because of the expectations surrounding the club.

Now that will wash with me for the rest of this season due to the amount of change and time for the manager to get his ideas across but by the start of next season the players and manager should have settled and Villa should, with a few more additions, be looking at automatic promotion.

I still tend to think though that Villa sit too deep and need to be more offensive. You cannot continually rely on the odd goal to win matches because somewhere along the line you must be able to compensate for player mistakes and good play from the opposition even in the Championship.

I also feel that Xia moved the goalposts for Bruce when it became apparent that Villa were not going to make the playoffs this season. There's no doubt in my opinion that was the expectation when Bruce arrived at Villa but I do not see any further allowances being made for Bruce next season. He and his team will have to start well and all of us hope that he will do that but if Villa are languishing in mid table by Christmas then I do not see Wyness or Xia tolerating that.    

That's the perfect summary for me, exactly what I think. 

[bobzy]

37 minutes ago, astonaidan said:

I like Bruce, I just dont rate him as a manager. To keep him at this stage is equally weak reasoning. You ignore the fact that without Kodija we were ****. Even with that settled squad excuse we were **** without Kodija. 

Look at Newcastle they made a raft of changes to there team, they didnt do so badly 7 starters I think they brought in. But heck lets ignore that, Villa signed 9 but thats including De Laet and Tshibola who were for different reasons never got a chance in the team. So 7 for each team

The settled squad issue isn't an excuse - it's just fact.

Newcastle also made a load of changes in the summer, you're right.  They then promptly lost their first 2 matches in the league.  Of course, overall, they won 5 of their first 9 games so it didn't go as badly as it did for us but it still took them time to settle into their rhythm.  I don't think they made any changes in January (correct me if I'm wrong) so, again, just not the same as for us.

I don't understand where the "we were **** without Kodjia" comes from.  Let's assume it's true, though.  Man Utd are **** without Ibrahimovic?  Arsenal are **** without Sanchez?  Newcastle are **** without Shelvey?  Huddersfield are **** without Mooy?  All clubs have big players who they would struggle without.

Let's talk actual fact, right now.  Steve Bruce has won 7 of his last 9 league games in charge of Aston Villa.  Steve Bruce is currently unbeaten in 5 games as manager of Aston Villa.  As things stand, Steve Bruce has a better win percentage than any Aston Villa manager since W. J. Smith between August 1926 and May 1934 (thank you Wikipedia).  That's over 80 years ago.  All factual information.

So, what's factually going against him?

[Mjvilla]

Just woken up after a night shift....

is this really still happening?!

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

 

Let's talk actual fact, right now.  Steve Bruce has won 7 of his last 9 league games in charge of Aston Villa.  Steve Bruce is currently unbeaten in 5 games as manager of Aston Villa.  As things stand, Steve Bruce has a better win percentage than any Aston Villa manager since W. J. Smith between August 1926 and May 1934 (thank you Wikipedia).  That's over 80 years ago.  All factual information.

So, what's factually going against him?

Yeah but are you including the last 8 wins? I don't think they count.

[Mjvilla]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

Yeah but are you including the last 8 wins? I don't think they count.

No, you don't think that bad run in Jan/Feb counts, do you?!

[bobzy]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Yeah but are you including the last 8 wins? I don't think they count.

I'm actually not including the last 4 results in that.

 

(Of course, they would give him an even better win ratio).

[Stevo985]

12 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

No, you don't think that bad run in Jan/Feb counts, do you?!

I don't think anything counts.

Looking forward to Bruce's first game!

[Grasshopper]

I come in peace

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

In addition you need to apply context. In January we were without Kodjia and now he is available, the difference that has made in both periods can't be ignored.  

This is what scares me

We have manager who, when our saving grace (Kodjia scoring goals) is not available, is unable to get a win without him. Despite having 20+ players available that he could mould into a fuctioning unit to make up for the one option of

Keep it tight - wait for Kodjia to score - sit tight.

Going on the possibility of

1) a PL club bidding for him

2) injury

3) suspension

4) loss of form

As thankfull as I can be for Kodjia, the what if is no solace for me

 

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

Then you have the fact that players that only arrived in January are now having an impact in a way they didn't then.  

are HL CH & Hogan really performing as effectively for us as they were for their previous clubs?

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

Then look at the difference in the defence between the two periods.

Well the shit football is no different

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

You can call it selective thinking if you wish, I don't think it's anything of the sort. 

This as a statement is a bit "spin-ney" for me

I'm sure the pro or contra-rers could state different "game nr x till game nr x" to make entirely different results/pts (1 from 8 <-> 21 from 8 and anything outside or inbetween)

We changed managers from a disasterous start to a manager with a record of promotion.

I was all for it at the time as 1 of a few options to go for.

Bruce had enough time and games and a squad for HIS way to get us enough pts to make the playoffs (irrespctive of footballing style)

He failed

For me he failed, the first signs being Gaby and then SJ - the results in jan/feb confirmed that (imho) and should have been sacked giving us enough time to get the next phase of our development in place.

Not directed at you - I fail to see why, If I come on VT and state an opinion, just because Its different from a majority, I'm deemed wrong, stupid, insane, a moron, crazy (I'll accept that one) ...etc

I often state my reasoning (no way claiming 100% correctability) but get called out without a counter point of view.

Now I'm an adult who is still capable of learning and changing my opinion ( I was for Bruce at the beginning - he proved me wrong - then the recent run gave me a reason to get with him again, alas, we drew to Burton despite Kodjia putting us ahead then going off - just giving me more ammo to think "without this guy he is lost")

Now I have no issue with an alternative view, and I won't even begin to state that I'm 100% correct. But jesus, some  posts (pro or contra) are just non-sensical.

Rant over

Discussing on

I want out of this league full stop. asap.

Bruce has not done enough to prove he will

Therefore

Bruce Out.

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, astonaidan said:

Really there has been many, it says more about you than people giving the logical reasons 

I do love this. 

Your arguments are 'logical reasons', everyone else's are 'weak reasoning and selective thinking'. 

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

1 hour ago, astonaidan said:

The 8 games come at a time when a lot of teams have nothing to play for. 

 

Stop spouting bullshit. I don't give a shit about the rest of the arguments, but this is just not true.

In our last 9 games we have beaten - 3 Playoff hopefuls (Derby, Norwich, Sheff Wed), 2 relegation battlers (Bristol and Wigan) and 2 teams with "nothing to play for" (Rotherham and QPR). We have drawn to another relegation battler in Burton, and lost by a flukey goal to a team that is pretty much guaranteed playoffs but no more in Huddersfield.

And our last 5 games come against - 2 playoff challengers (Reading and Fulham), our biggest rivals, a relegation battler in Blackburn and one of the best teams in the league, Brighton. Hence why finishing strongly will be important.

Stop saying we've been playing teams with nothing to play for, it is a lie.

Edit - I suppose you could include Blues as a relegation battler too, adding extra spice to that game.

Edited April 10, 2017 by MessiWillSignForVilla

[Stevo985]

6 minutes ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said:

Stop spouting bullshit. I don't give a shit about the rest of the arguments, but this is just not true.

In our last 9 games we have beaten - 3 Playoff hopefuls (Derby, Norwich, Sheff Wed), 2 relegation battlers (Bristol and Wigan) and 2 teams with "nothing to play for" (Rotherham and QPR). We have drawn to another relegation battler in Burton, and lost by a flukey goal to a team that is pretty much guaranteed playoffs but no more in Huddersfield.

And our last 5 games come against - 2 playoff challengers (Reading and Fulham), our biggest rivals, a relegation battler in Blackburn and one of the best teams in the league, Brighton. Hence why finishing strongly will be important.

Stop saying we've been playing teams with nothing to play for, it is a lie.

Stop being so selective

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, astonaidan said:

Hence why I said pretty much brah, maybe you should read a little. How long do you think a season is mind? He wasnt in charge for 6 weeks at the start but has been for 6 much since, uh ok dude 

Brah? I know you don't agree with his point but calling him ladies clothing is not right!

[weedman]

I hate DOL for calling us fickle all those years ago, since then people seem to think they need to form an opinion instantly and never change it regardless of circumstance. We have a good budget, some top championship players, have the manager with the best ever record in this division in terms of promotions, and are on our best run of form that I can remember, what is it, 7 wins and 1 draw in 9 games? When was the last time we had a 9 game period like that?! Wanting the manager out now is ludicrous and shows an incredible bias.  

Its been said before, but the magnificent Wagner nearly relegated Huddersfield in his first season, some want Bruce out for only getting us top half, madness

[sheepyvillian]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

I don't even understand this point.  What are you trying to get at?

It's really annoying that ,isn't It? 

[sheepyvillian]

3 hours ago, Tommo_b said:

I don't really see the need to concern myself with budgets, as long as next season we get promoted I really don't care if our team spent ten times as much as the next team, if the board can afford it without saddling the club with debt. 

Plus ive no idea nor care how much Leeds have spent, why would I?! 

Because spurs, Liverpool, Man City, United, Chelsea, Arsenal etc all spent more money then Leicester last season, does that suddenly mean Ranieri is better then those managers at those clubs last season? Nah I didn't think so. 

Like I said, let's just see, I think all the Bruce out fans are wrong, you think Bruce in is wrong, no point arguing over it tho, surely you want him to prove you wrong?! Surely! Any Villa fan wants Bruce to succeed, am I not right? 

And if you cannot see that he has signed good players, and is starting to slowly turn this juggernaught back around after being in embarrassing free fall for 6/7 years then you're all lost causes, ok footballs not been great, but we are still in recovery, this was never going to be a quick fix, i hoped it would be, but I think it's been clear in hindsight that the clubs been rotten to the core for many years, and we now finally have owners and a manager who have the ability to stop the rot, do I think Wagner or Rowett could do the job Bruce has done.... not at all, we would most likely still be in freefall, it's a completely different and harder task facing Bruce and we have the right man for us right now. 

Maybe in 4 years Wagner would be the right man, but he isn't the right man now, we have the right man for what we need and I suggest we all just get on with supporting the team and enjoy the fact the future looks a lot brighter then it did a year ago.

Rowett couldn't of done what Bruce has done ? I beg to differ ,with the money Bruce has spent ,Rowett would of got us in the top six ,and Imo so would Dean Smith ,but hey , that's just my opinion . I'm sick of hearing the same old tired excuses . We deserve a better brand of football than what we are getting .