sheepyvillian Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 6 hours ago, Stevo985 said: If you're talking about immediate relegation, as in relegation the season following promotion, then Zero If you're talking about relegation at any point after promotion, then the answer is twice. He eventually got relegated after 3 or 4 seasons with Birmingham and with Hull he got relegated after 2 seasons. But never has he taken a team up only to immediately get relegated. If your objection is to Bruce being our manager for the next 5-10 years then I think you'd have a lot more people on your side. Me for one. But if your argument is to rewrite history to pretend Bruce is incapable of getting a team up and keeping them up then that's when people will disagree with you. Bruce can take us up and keep us up for a season. THAT is when the club should be reconsidering his position. Is he capable of taking us further from there? If the answer is no, then he should be replaced. I'm fully on board with that approach. Where is the guarantee of him taking us up ? My objection is I don't think he's right for Villa. And nothing as yet, as give me cause to change my mind . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 It's a bit like sending a lamb to slaughter isnt it? Do you stand and watch for the entertainment or do you think its unneccessary because you know that the lamb has no chance? Bruce, trying to get promotion with his hoofball, being the Lamb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Grasshopper said: It's a bit like sending a lamb to slaughter isnt it? Do you stand and watch for the entertainment or do you think its unneccessary because you know that the lamb has no chance? Bruce, trying to get promotion with his hoofball, being the Lamb. How many times has he been promoted before, remind me? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: Where is the guarantee of him taking us up ? My objection is I don't think he's right for Villa. And nothing as yet, as give me cause to change my mind . This is the main bone of contention People are argueing for what he hasnt done for us yet and showed very little evidence WITH US of achieving it. Their problem is they dont see it. Either through not wanting to or being blind to the fact that he ISNT DOING IT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted April 10, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted April 10, 2017 Just now, Grasshopper said: This is the main bone of contention People are argueing for what he hasnt done for us yet and showed very little evidence WITH US of achieving it. Their problem is they dont see it. Its either through not wanting to or being blind to the fact that I can't see he IS DOING IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 you never trust a blind man to guide you to cross the road. You trust his dog. We just havent found our dog yet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Just now, Villan_of_oz said: wonderful. you have discovered that it works both ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted April 10, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted April 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Grasshopper said: you never trust a blind man to guide you to cross the road. You trust his dog. We just havent found our dog yet We might not have a dog but we certainly have a few foghorns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 10, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted April 10, 2017 16 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: Where is the guarantee of him taking us up ? My objection is I don't think he's right for Villa. And nothing as yet, as give me cause to change my mind . There is no guarantee. I'm not sure where I've said there is? There's also no guarantee that sacking him and bringing someone else in would get us promoted. We're not working on guarantees. What there is is evidence that suggests Bruce is capable of getting a team promoted and keeping them in the premier league for one season which, in my opinion, is what our current manager should be employed to do. The implication of your OP was that even if Bruce did get us promoted, we'd be relegated again anyway. Again, the evidence suggests this isn't true as it's never happened before. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 10, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted April 10, 2017 12 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: This is the main bone of contention People are argueing for what he hasnt done for us yet and showed very little evidence WITH US of achieving it. Their problem is they dont see it. Either through not wanting to or being blind to the fact that he ISNT DOING IT Except he is doing it. His form since arriving is arguably play off form. What most people are suggesting is that if we continue to improve on what is already play off form, we'll be a force next season in this league. If you disagree then that's fine, your prerogative, but it's not fair to suggest those who disagree with you are "blind". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 10, 2017 Moderator Share Posted April 10, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgl Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 To use the old banking adage, "past performance is not a guarantee of future results" - that being said, Steve Bruce has taken teams out of this division before, Like @Stevo985 I don't expect Bruce to guarantee a promotion, guarantees in football are worth less than a ticket to a win a date auction with MacLeish and Lambert as the main attractions. I expect the club to hire somebody with a record of promotion (which he has) and give them long enough to turn this failing mentality around (which I think would be to give him a preseason in the summer and see where we are by Christmas) I don't need us to play like barcelona i don't need us to win every game I do expect us to show promotion form next year and if we don't ? Then the Bruce out people will get what they want and I'll concede I was wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 10, 2017 Moderator Share Posted April 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Except he is doing it. His form since arriving is arguably play off form. If you take his points per game since he arrived and you put that rate across the full season (i.e. if he'd been here since day one and performed to the same level), we'd be third. He's doing a decent job results wise, the football's rubbish and the quality of our play brings into question the sustainability of our results - but he seems to be aware of that and he's put some good things into the squad, we're resolute, we're hard to beat and the group seems to have a good spirit to it. There are challenges for him undoubtedly, but that's the nature of things - I think he's made a good start in the six months he's been here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bobzy Posted April 10, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted April 10, 2017 43 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: Rowett couldn't of done what Bruce has done ? I beg to differ ,with the money Bruce has spent ,Rowett would of got us in the top six ,and Imo so would Dean Smith ,but hey , that's just my opinion . I'm sick of hearing the same old tired excuses . We deserve a better brand of football than what we are getting . "We deserve a better brand of football" and should have got "Rowett". Do you guys actually watch how his teams play or are you picking a manager based on results? I ask because, like Bruce, Rowett's teams are very, very dull but effective. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOF Posted April 10, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted April 10, 2017 30 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: This is the main bone of contention People are argueing for what he hasnt done for us yet and showed very little evidence WITH US of achieving it. Their problem is they dont see it. Either through not wanting to or being blind to the fact that he ISNT DOING IT 1. What points would we get over a season, based on Bruce's results with us this season (including our bad January)? 2. Are our results improving under Bruce over time? We have 1.6 points per game during Bruce's time (since gameweek 12). That's 73.6pts over a season. If the answer to question 1 puts us near to, or in, the playoffs (which it does), and the answer to question 2 is 'Yes' (which IMO it is), then you can't really say that he has shown 'very little evidence' of achieving promotion with us next season. Or rather you can say it, but the accusation of 'not wanting to or being blind to something' does indeed go both ways. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 46 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: This is the main bone of contention People are argueing for what he hasnt done for us yet and showed very little evidence WITH US of achieving it. Their problem is they dont see it. Either through not wanting to or being blind to the fact that he ISNT DOING IT Usually grasshopper, you whack together an opinion and it's usually good to read and makes me think and although I disagree, it's good to see the other side of opinions. Unlike some of the other posters. But I believe you really are scraping the barrel here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 30 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: There is no guarantee. I'm not sure where I've said there is? There's also no guarantee that sacking him and bringing someone else in would get us promoted. We're not working on guarantees. What there is is evidence that suggests Bruce is capable of getting a team promoted and keeping them in the premier league for one season which, in my opinion, is what our current manager should be employed to do. The implication of your OP was that even if Bruce did get us promoted, we'd be relegated again anyway. Again, the evidence suggests this isn't true as it's never happened before. Same old ,same old. As they say ,proof of the pudding will be in the eating . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: Same old ,same old. As they say ,proof of the pudding will be in the eating . Give me a manager that 100% guarantees us promotion... Clearly if we could find a manger that would have guaranteed us promotion this season we would have taken him on. But the world doesn't work in that way and so we hired a manager who has previously been there, done it and has the experience to do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, astonaidan said: Why is our horrible form in January over looked, but our winning streak hyped up. He was the manager for both spells. Theres a awful amount of selective thinking Not selective thinking, valid bona fide reasons. because Kodjia , Jedinak was missing ( our 2 most influential players)and the form of Johnstone had not yet materialised.....(He was still finding his way about the place) It was still such a fragile/brittle team and it was too much to have them missing. This season was always a pipe dream in thinking " play offs" on the back of what damage had been done. Edited April 10, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 24 minutes ago, bobzy said: "We deserve a better brand of football" and should have got "Rowett". Do you guys actually watch how his teams play or are you picking a manager based on results? I ask because, like Bruce, Rowett's teams are very, very dull but effective. Don't twist my words , yes , I said we deserve a better brand of football, but where did I say we should of got Rowett . What I said was Rowett would of got usome into the play - offs. Which would of at least compensated for the " dull football ". What have we got forelegated Bruce's turgid football ? Mid - table mediocrity, thats what . And that ,I'm afraid, is not good enough for me . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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