Steve Bruce

[terrytini]

28 minutes ago, astonaidan said:

Hahaha ah stop buddy, we have fallen even further away from the playoffs but you still argue. You wont get into a long argument as your argument has no foundation. You would think a top manager at this level would have got us closer to the play offs after spending what he did in January instead of falling further back. Every criticism I have of Bruce has been validated by the stats. A lucky winning streak when we were out of the playoffs means nothing to me. 

Read my Posts - I have considerable praise and criticism for Bruce, I think he is the - flawed, yes- best man for the job  despite him having aspects to his methods I disagree with. I couldn't see him progressing the Club a couple of months back and went against my general view of only judging after half a season.......he has quite obviously shown he CAN progress the Club since then.

However I certainly understand those who don't fancy him, aswell as those that do.

And from that position I have to say your argument that he " took over a team 10 points from the play offs and they're now 11 off" (ignoring that 10 points off after 11 games is way worse than 11 now) is either the most ignorant, or the most deliberately misleading, argument I've read in a very long time.

There is a big difference between constructive debate and ludicrous ranting, a difference I'm afraid appears totally lost on you .

[Mjvilla]

1 hour ago, sheepyvillian said:

No I mean a team that played a better brand of football ,and who won an FA cup.  He was hopeless at  Sunderland ,ask the fans. 

Remind me, the year they won the FA Cup.... what else happened with Wigan that season? He may well have been a disaster at Sunderland, I think most managers are aren't they?!

[osmark86]

This thread. Some want to bet on a horse called Brucey given this and this and that and others would rather spunk their cold cash on someone else. But where's the bloody use in bickering on whether one side or the other is willing to admit they thought wrong come the future? We all want the best for the club and I doubt any sane bastard in here will push "their agenda" beyond that. I mean what kind of pride would you need to have to refuse to refute your position given evidence to the contrary if it hurts the club? Either way our opinions on here won't so I prescribe a hefty dose of chill to some of you lot. Y'all know who you are..

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, Mjvilla said:

Remind me, the year they won the FA Cup.... what else happened with Wigan that season? He may well have been a disaster at Sunderland, I think most managers are aren't they?!

Where was he successful? Face it , he isn't all that. 

[sheepyvillian]

2 hours ago, Tommo_b said:

Pretty sure they had clubs, and erm why are they going to do a better job then Bruce, I do love how these two managers get bought up time and again, but why? What have they achieved that Bruce hasn't? 

Where are Huddersfield and Leeds in the table ? And on a budget quite below ours, and also with a better brand of football. 

Work that one out .

[sheepyvillian]

3 hours ago, Zatman said:

a better brand of football that got them relegated and needing miracle recoveries every other season to stay up. I also believe Martinez good football was why they even lost 9-1 at Spurs

Ask Wigan fans who they'd have back , Bruce or Martinez,? I guarantee it's Martinez every time .

[astonaidan]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Read my Posts - I have considerable praise and criticism for Bruce, I think he is the - flawed, yes- best man for the job  despite him having aspects to his methods I disagree with. I couldn't see him progressing the Club a couple of months back and went against my general view of only judging after half a season.......he has quite obviously shown he CAN progress the Club since then.

However I certainly understand those who don't fancy him, aswell as those that do.

And from that position I have to say your argument that he " took over a team 10 points from the play offs and they're now 11 off" (ignoring that 10 points off after 11 games is way worse than 11 now) is either the most ignorant, or the most deliberately misleading, argument I've read in a very long time.

There is a big difference between constructive debate and ludicrous ranting, a difference I'm afraid appears totally lost on you .

Why is it way worse, its more telling where to be at the end of the season than the first few games where a team is gelling, the fact that were now further away with a settled teams shows a manager that isnt up the level needed. Your arguments have zero logic. As for your last comment, well so far Ive been called a troll, stated that I dont support the team all because I think Bruce is a terrible manager, explain how that is constructive debate. 

 

[Tommo_b]

37 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Where are Huddersfield and Leeds in the table ? And on a budget quite below ours, and also with a better brand of football. 

Work that one out .

So the same Wagner that nearly got Huddersfield relegated the season before? But Wagner is allowed another season to turn it around, I do wonder how long you would've afforded him at Villa in a similar scenario, I'd imagine he would've already have been sacked by you. 

Will be interesting to see who does go up from the play offs this year, imagine it's not either Wagner or Rowett, I could not envisage Wagner or Rowett finishing above Aston Villla next season, not because I think less of them, but because our manager has actually won promotion from this division, on numerous occasions, it's not rocket science to work out who you're better off with in charge if you want to get out of this division. 

Lets continue this chat IF one of those two teams wins the play offs. 

[Mjvilla]

55 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Where was he successful? Face it , he isn't all that. 

One of the 4 promotions he's had? That's pretty successful when you look at what we are trying to achieve. Keep moving the goalposts my friend and I'll keep finding the net.

[Ingram85]

I hate people sometimes. 

[Jareth]

It will be a slow and painful year ahead, for those hoping Bruce will be replaced. Personally I think he will ace this league next year especially given an actual summer window. Big IF but IF he brings in anyone with the sort of experience as Gareth Barry and then plugs a few gaps in the squad, given our current form we will hit the ground running and be in the top 2 all season. 

[Stevo985]

Apropos of nothing, Bruce's PPG since he joined would give us 72 points over a full season.

That is more or less play off points. Probably a couple of points short (it was 74 points last season for example)

But that includes our horrendous run in January, so I think it's a fairly safe assumption that even if we fail to improve at all next season, we'll be looking at Playoffs as a minimum.

 

Obviously automatic is the goal, and really what should be expected next season. I don't see any reason why we won't be up there challenging for those top two places.

[sheepyvillian]

8 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

One of the 4 promotions he's had? That's pretty successful when you look at what we are trying to achieve. Keep moving the goalposts my friend and I'll keep finding the net.

How many of those promotions were followed by  relegation . Look at a manager like Eddie Howe and his ability to keep Bournemouth in the Premiere, and whilst playing decent football ,now that is the work of a good manager .

[Jareth]

6 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

How many of those promotions were followed by  relegation . Look at a manager like Eddie Howe and his ability to keep Bournemouth in the Premiere, and whilst playing decent football ,now that is the work of a good manager .

Oh ok well that makes whole heaps of sense. Lets just go out and employ the next Eddie Howe. Easy this club management lark. 

[sheepyvillian]

8 hours ago, Tommo_b said:

So the same Wagner that nearly got Huddersfield relegated the season before? But Wagner is allowed another season to turn it around, I do wonder how long you would've afforded him at Villa in a similar scenario, I'd imagine he would've already have been sacked by you. 

Will be interesting to see who does go up from the play offs this year, imagine it's not either Wagner or Rowett, I could not envisage Wagner or Rowett finishing above Aston Villla next season, not because I think less of them, but because our manager has actually won promotion from this division, on numerous occasions, it's not rocket science to work out who you're better off with in charge if you want to get out of this division. 

Lets continue this chat IF one of those two teams wins the play offs. 

Will do .

Ps . I noticed no mention of the budgets those two managers worked under in comparison to ours , but never mind. 

[sheepyvillian]

1 minute ago, Jareth said:

Oh ok well that makes whole heaps of sense. Lets just go out and employ the next Eddie Howe. Easy this club management lark. 

Doh !

[Stevo985]

19 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

How many of those promotions were followed by  relegation . 

If you're talking about immediate relegation, as in relegation the season following promotion, then Zero

If you're talking about relegation at any point after promotion, then the answer is twice. He eventually got relegated after 3 or 4 seasons with Birmingham and with Hull he got relegated after 2 seasons.

But never has he taken a team up only to immediately get relegated.

 

If your objection is to Bruce being our manager for the next 5-10 years then I think you'd have a lot more people on your side. Me for one.

But if your argument is to rewrite history to pretend Bruce is incapable of getting a team up and keeping them up then that's when people will disagree with you.

 

Bruce can take us up and keep us up for a season. THAT is when the club should be reconsidering his position. Is he capable of taking us further from there? If the answer is no, then he should be replaced.
I'm fully on board with that approach.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Stevo985

[sheepyvillian]

4 hours ago, Ingram85 said:

I hate people sometimes. 

I'm surprised they're that important to you .

[NIVillan]

Not convinced by Bruce but I can't think of anyone who could do better for us that would be available.

He needs a pre season to bed down his ideas and we can judge him on next season.

Reminds me of when Brian Little came in.  Struggled and just made it to the end of the season without being relegated.  Had a pre-season and we Came out a totally different team the next season.

The end of last season the club was in a dark dark hole.  We are at least peering out of it now.  It has been rough but the rot looks to have been stopped.

[TrentVilla]

 

Irrespective of what people think about Bruce as our manager in the short or long term the simple truth is that we really can't change manager yet again.

There have been many many things wrong at the club over the last 10 years including a succession of poor managerial appointments.

Now people may feel that Bruce is another one, fair enough, I wouldn't personally agree but everyone has their own view. He wouldn't actually have been my choice but he is in post now, has bought well and the results have improved even if the performances haven't been particularly eye catching.

But he is a man with a proven track record of promotion and that is our only aim, so I'm happy going into next season with him at the helm to try and achieve that.

We need some stability, we need a manager with his own squad and not one that constantly has to look after the one put together by the previous incumbent who lasted less than 12 months.

I see Bruce as a man who can get us up and probably keep us up, not much more but that is a worry for another day.

Next season is hugely important for all sorts of reasons, the absolute last thing we need is to go into it with a different manager trying to embed his own ideas or build his own squad.