Steve Bruce

[Stratvillan]

50 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

I've never thought that SB was the right manager for us but so far it's hard to argue with the progress made. 1.8 points a game to date from his 14 games, which would give 45 points  if he had been here since the start of the season and put us firmly in the play-off slots and within striking distance of automatic promotion. Given he took over an unbalanced squad, with rock bottom confidence he's done all that could be asked so far - we were always going to get disappointing results like todays

January will be massive - it's vital that he brings in the right three or four players and crucial that we don't now fall away from the 1.8-2 points a game form that we have established to date. We need to target 75 points and hope that it's good enough to get in the playoffs

Agree totally.

[Zatman]

He hauled off Westwood and Gardner which for me is a sign he sees no future for them in the first team. I will happily take defeat today if the outcome is one or both out the door in the next weeks

[Guest av1]

3 minutes ago, Zatman said:

He hauled off Westwood and Gardner which for me is a sign he sees no future for them in the first team. I will happily take defeat today if the outcome is one or both out the door in the next weeks

The new deal for Gardner is a worry though. 

[markavfc40]

Just listened to some of his after match comments and once again brutally honest. That first half was diabolical though and that is twice now in the last handful of games when the players haven't put a shift in and he has to take responsibility for that and I think he has.

The midfield options at his disposal are diabolical and it said it all that he took off Westwood and Gardner at half time. With Jedi ill, who in fairness hasn't been great himself, but it leaves us lacking in both an attacking and defensive sense in midfield. The fact that we looked better in the second half with a midfield of Bacuna and Tishibola says it all about Gardner and Westwood.

Massive transfer window now. If he can sort out the midfield we can still have a sniff of the play offs. If he is unable to then we have no chance. The fact we are still only 7 points off top 6 with a non existent midfield is testament to Bruce tightening the defence and relying on bits of individual magic from the forwards but that will only take us to where we are no now which is mid table inconsistent fodder.

Edited January 2, 2017 by markavfc40

[AntrimBlack]

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

Or justifies to the owner why they should both be replaced. 

Gardner has just been given a 4 year contract. That would not have happened without Bruce's agreement. So he must believe he has a future here.

[macandally]

Said in the post match thread, this side is not good enough to go up.  I think if we did manage to fluke our way up, we would be back down at he end of next season.  We almost need a season at this level to stabilise the shower of shite we have become.

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

Or justifies to the owner why they should both be replaced. 

That's certainly the positive way to look at it. 

We need new midfielders. Everybody knows it on here, and you can be damn sure Bruce knows it too. So we need to back him to buy better, and it's harsh to judge him too much until he's got them in place and up to speed. He picked the wrong team today, and he's said as much, but he corrected it and we improved significantly in the second half. Gardner and Westwood are shit, but there really aren't many other options. I know Tshibola was better today, and I hope he starts the next game on the back of this performance, but he's just an average-to-promising young Championship central midfielder, the way some on here are talking it's like he's leaving Paul Scholes out. 

[thunderball]

To be clear, I am pro-Bruce. But he needs to seriously get this expensive team up and running, and his January window will be the difference of whether he is still here May onwards.

From where I am, there are plenty of other managers, and smaller clubs, with near enough no money compared to us who are performing well above where we are. We have not had a single big result yet this season, and there is still no sign of how this squad is going to work. 

FWIW, I also think letting Gestede go is crazy too, unless there is something mighty impressive arriving in January.

[AntrimBlack]

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

That's certainly the positive way to look at it. 

We need new midfielders. Everybody knows it on here, and you can be damn sure Bruce knows it too. So we need to back him to buy better, and it's harsh to judge him too much until he's got them in place and up to speed. He picked the wrong team today, and he's said as much, but he corrected it and we improved significantly in the second half. Gardner and Westwood are shit, but there really aren't many other options. I know Tshibola was better today, and I hope he starts the next game on the back of this performance, but he's just an average-to-promising young Championship central midfielder, the way some on here are talking it's like he's leaving Paul Scholes out. 

I think that's unfair, HV. From what we have seen of Tshibola, quite a few on here think , not that he is anything great, but just that he is better than Westwood and Gardner.

[Guest av1]

14 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

 The fact we are still only 7 points off top 6 with a non existent midfield is testament to Bruce tightening the defence and relying on bits of individual magic from the forwards 

This really can't be overstated. 

[Stevo985]

Poor selection today but at least he's acknowledge it. He's learned a lesson today.

[thunderball]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

Poor selection today but at least he's acknowledge it. He's learned a lesson today.

Credit to him, he has no favourites and has made the decisions he has had to, like dropping Elphick, Gollini, Ayew, McCormack when it was needed - all tough decisions. He has the steel a manager needs, you can see he has thrown down the gauntlet and it's up to the players to respond, they know come January they could be out of consideration.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

?

I was trying to say Bruce's way is a physical way.....he has obviously told them at BMH.

it just isn't in them to do it.

He is finding this out.

Edited January 2, 2017 by TRO

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, av1 said:

I don't want to cross threads here because i know its being talked about in their respective threads, but when your midfield contribute 9 passes in 45 mins your pissing in the wind in terms of a gameplan.

The points we have amased are great, but i feel his job really started when the window opened yesterday. 

This 100%

Of course its not really till the summer when he can really really get to grips with it as January is difficult to get exactly what you want. 

BUT I expect to see significant improvements in midfield.  We simply can't go on with Westwood,  Gardner,  Bacuna,  Jedi.  

Even if they are not the final answer he needs to find players to improve on them. 

This might be enough to get us into play offs,  we've got this far with a non existent midfield. 

Edited January 2, 2017 by sidcow

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, vreitti said:

I like Bruce's post match comments. Talk is cheap though.

Worry is he said similar after Norwich and we've come up with a similar away performance just 4 weeks later.

We are bobbins away and indeed I've been disappointed with how we've approached the away games bar Brighton. Very tentative first halfs and we are so dependant on the first goal. If we get it we don't lose....if we don't....well it seems we just go on and lose.

Needs to make some signings for Wolves as that midfield was so poor today.

[Tommo_b]

I swear it was only a year or two ago people were raving about how good Gardner is/was going to be?! 

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, sidcow said:

This 100%

Of course its not really till the summer when he can really really get to grips with it as January is difficult to get exactly what you want. 

BUT I expect to see significant improvements in midfield.  We simply can't go on with Westwood,  Gardner,  Bacuna,  Jedi.  

Even if they are not the final answer he needs to find players to improve on them. 

This might be enough to get us into play offs,  we've got this far with a non existent midfield. 

Such is the problem.....I think it will cost us promotion.

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

I swear it was only a year or two ago people were raving about how good Gardner is/was going to be?! 

Its only his injuries that that has kept him here as long as he has.

it has disguised the ability of the player, as sad as that is....but he is not showing the form for this level of football. You can tell when a good player is off form and when a player is not at the level......sadly he is not.

I'm damned if I know why he was offered a 4 year contract , it must be for commercial and not footballing reasons.

 

[sidcow]

14 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

I swear it was only a year or two ago people were raving about how good Gardner is/was going to be?! 

Classic he's not around at the moment whilst we are poor,  he's a better player than we have now syndrome. 

See Tishbola. I know he played very well when he came on before people attack me but he is still only a young inexperienced unproven player yet as someone said earlier he's been spoken about recently like we are leaving out Paul Scholes. 

[HanoiVillan]

50 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

I think that's unfair, HV. From what we have seen of Tshibola, quite a few on here think , not that he is anything great, but just that he is better than Westwood and Gardner.

Maybe I'm being a touch unfair, but the point I'm trying to make is that he isn't so much better than the others that it's nothing more than common sense that he has to start every game. He's just a young kid finding his way. I think some people over-rate him, or expect too much of him at least. 

27 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Worry is he said similar after Norwich and we've come up with a similar away performance just 4 weeks later.

We are bobbins away and indeed I've been disappointed with how we've approached the away games bar Brighton. Very tentative first halfs and we are so dependant on the first goal. If we get it we don't lose....if we don't....well it seems we just go on and lose.

Needs to make some signings for Wolves as that midfield was so poor today.

I think that's a tad harsh. We came out much better in the second half and hit the woodwork, it would hardly have been astonishing if we hadn't lost that game.