Next Villa Manager

[rodders0223]

19 minutes ago, Johnnyp said:

Wagner's odds only seem to be getting shorter. 9/4 now with paddy power

Put a couple of hundred £££ on it whilst you can!

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, Johnnyp said:

Not necessarily no. Like Rowett said yesterday, Wagner's Huddersfield were the best and most drilled side he's ever come up against. I just think he sets up his team very well and they work incredibly hard. No hard science behind that and id like to think he could get us doing that as well. Bruce may well be the answer, may well not. No certainties on how we go after whoever it is we appoint. None.

Encouraging comments on Wagner......no fancy frills, working hard, sets up well

sounds good to me.

[allani]

Just now, BOF said:

Philosophy is there or thereabouts a fancy word for system.  Our players can defend, pass and score.  It only looks as though they can't, because they've been in a team that lacks a philoso system.  Which goes back to wanting a manager that has a clue.  Put those players into a balanced functional side and I think we'd be pleasantly surprised, when everyone knows their job and isn't being pulled left, right and centre to cover for someone who has gone AWOL.  Round pegs in round holes doesn't just mean playing a striker up front.  It means the whole thing making sense all of the time.

I agree almost entirely with this.  Although maybe the second sentence should start with "Some of" :-)

Four challenges that I think we face:

1) Our recruitment process meant that it will be difficult for any manager to pick a balanced team with the players that we have.  Do we even have 4 midfielders?

2) Several of our players probably would look better in a balanced / functional side but one where they are the "junior" partner.  I know we signed a lot of captains but that doesn't mean that they were the better players.  Tish, Jedinak and maybe even Westwood would be pretty decent if they were the weaker of our two central midfielders.  Unfortunately we need some of them to step up to be the better / senior player - and I'm not sure that they are able to (due to a mixture of, correspondingly; experience, age and ability).  Exactly the same thing applies to central defenders too.

Actually thinking about it - take Westwood out of that list - he's a League One player end of. 

3) I think there are several players who would go AWOL at critical points during the match - regardless of what system / philosophy we adopt.

4) It is still 3 months before a new manager can add to the squad to address the problems with the three points above - a lot of points will have gone by then.  I think Xia and we need to accept that and effectively refuse to make any judgements until February - almost regardless of results / performances.  That could be a massive, massive challenge.  Unless of course we get someone who can fire a rocket of people's ar$es for the next few games and can then be ruthless enough to axe them in January and convince Xia of the need to recruit heavily again (which could well mean shipping players on that only arrived this summer).

[Woodytom]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

TBF it's easy to predict that something doing badly will keep doing badly. The stock market is full of people who can follow a trendline. Talent is being able to predict when things are going to change, before it happens, more than once. 

'Betting against Villa' is a pretty safe bet, all things considered. 

Not really. Robbie savage was pretty much the first person to say we'd be in a relegation fight a few years back. We all laughed at him.

[AvfcTheObsession]

I'm torn between Bruce and Wagner now, both very different. One feels like a safe pair of hands, the other COULD be the next big thing, however it may take a while for his methods to bare fruit, his Huddersfield side finished 19th last season. I don't think we have the players for the gegenpress at the moment (Tshibola is the only energetic CM we have), but then a good manager should be able to adapt to the players they have at their disposal at any given time.

[Gary Thomas]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Its these footballing Philosophies that worry me and I am not directly referring to Wagner, because I do not know enough about him and his methods( Remi Garde was dealt a poor hand ,but he was lost in it all, too much wrong.)......I am really not knocking them, but there is a right time for all that. Now we are light years away from that, just watch the games , yes even through your fingers, because thats how bad it is.....The games are littered with things a schoolmaster would be cringing/bawling at.

We can't even do the basics.....There are posters on here that have listed them all without going over old ground.

We want a manager that can implement the very basic ingredients of attempting to win a football match.....This head in the clouds stuff has to stop, we are in a serious situation and need a manager who can identify with this and get on the training ground and get this team back to functioning to carry out the fundamentals.

We have just dispensed with a manager that has won the European cup for christ sake ( however he has done it) when is the penny going to drop.

RDM perhaps thought he was going to tweak here and tweak there.....There is no John Terry to rely on here......bad habits and poor play has engulfed this club to a point where we have long gone past a point where good footballing philosophies, (usually borne on the continent) will help us......with much improvement over a period of time it may be prudent to take up your challenge and I would be more inclined to agree.

I watch plenty of games and I know we struggle to get the basics right, but to suggest managers 'other than' Bruce or whoever represent "head in the clouds stuff " is nonsense imo. I believe Wagner would do the basics right  - that's the point.  Sean Dyche, Eddie Howe, there are plenty of young managers who can implement the very basic ingredients of attempting to win a football match as you put it. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Gary Thomas

[GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS]

This is Huddersfields highest scoring XI according to the marks given by Whoscored.  The ones in yellow are Wagner's signings from this summer along with how much they cost. Just shows that putting together an almost completely new side, getting them to gel together and play well can be done... not to mention how much cheaper he did it.

 

[NeilS]

57 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

It indicates to me that Sky are making shit up because they would like some punters to put loads of money on him using their betting website (which is handily linked from the article) as that will make them lots of lovely money.

You are quite possibly correct, but if he is a choice then it causes me to be concerned. I can't see it though if I am honest. You don't spend like we did in the summer then go put a serial failure in charge.

[Gary Thomas]

45 minutes ago, Craigy1874 said:

@Johnnyp

All of the fans who want footballing philosophies and all that shite.

Our players can barely defend, pass or score a goal.

We need to get back to basics, maybe even a bloody 4-4-2.  Get the basics sorted

That is a footballing philosophy right there.

[Demitri_C]

My issue with Wagner is his little experience of dealing with big pressure from fans. There is a big expectation here so really where we are now we need someone abit more experienced. 

[PieFacE]

I honestly don't think there is a big expectation from Villa fans to be honest, not the ones who are currently going to games. Generally the mood is that we just want to see a team that can compete, and maybe win back to back games for the first time since whenever. Maybe even get an away win too. If this manager can't handle that sort of pressure then management shouldn't really be his game. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by PieFacE

[dont_do_it_doug.]

29 minutes ago, Johnnyp said:

Not necessarily no. Like Rowett said yesterday, Wagner's Huddersfield were the best and most drilled side he's ever come up against. 

I listened to the interview. It wasn't quite framed that way from what I recall, they were talking about surprise teams and he was asked outright by a caller about a particular Blues vs Huddersfield match. 

[Gary Thomas]

1 minute ago, PieFacE said:

I honestly don't think there is a big expectation from Villa fans to be honest, not the ones who are currently going to games. Generally the mood is that we just want to see a team that can compete, and maybe win back to back games for the first time since whenever. Maybe even get an away win too. If this manager can't handle that sort of pressure then management shouldn't really be his game. 

Think I agree - we are coming from such a low base.  F**k me, one away win and we're be building statues of him.

[jim]

I'd rather we stuck with a safe pair of hands like Bruce to get us up than take a massive risk on someone like Wagner. 

My gut feel is Wagner would flop and we will be looking for another manager in February.

[Jareth]

I don't like Wagner's glasses. If he wants to be known as Klopp 2 then fine, just don't copy his eye-wear.

[TRO]

Gary, I wasn't being rude I was referring to incidents in a game, you have seen them, fine, maybe some have not picked up on them.

• Head in clouds was not directed at you but folk nominating Mancini and such like.
• "other than Bruce" is your intrepretation not mine....but i could see the logic in that choice.

However according to tonights Birmingham Mail he is the overwhelming choice villa fans are pleading the board to get.what proportion of the overall fanbase that is, I'm not sure.

Edited October 4, 2016 by TRO

[BOF]

20 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

My issue with Wagner is his little experience of dealing with big pressure from fans. There is a big expectation here so really where we are now we need someone abit more experienced. 

That might be the one tangible advantage to having Dortmund on his CV.  Even though it was the second team, I'm sure after 4 years playing at the Westfalenstadion he's picked up more than enough experience of dealing with fans.  Plus good results would more than placate a fanbase starved of any joy.

[mykeyb]

29 minutes ago, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said:

This is Huddersfields highest scoring XI according to the marks given by Whoscored.  The ones in yellow are Wagner's signings from this summer along with how much they cost. Just shows that putting together an almost completely new side, getting them to gel together and play well can be done... not to mention how much cheaper he did it.

 

Buying players to fit a system and without blowing millions on them..............its a novel approach. I cannot see it catching on down Villa Park though.

[TRO]

32 minutes ago, Gary Thomas said:

That is a footballing philosophy right there.

I think we are all saying the same thing with slightly different terminology or interpretation.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Buying players to fit a system and without blowing millions on them..............its a novel approach. I cannot see it catching on down Villa Park though.

There have umpteen posts on this site on this conflicting subject, should we or shouldn't we.

We have spent c£100 mill in 12-18 months and under the circumstances it hasn't worked.

There is other examples too, like Blues, so its certainly not a "one off"

Further more, its what Ron Saunders et al did.....even in those days.

Edited October 4, 2016 by TRO