DaveAV1 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: So our style of play is don't create chances or don't play through balls through the channel? So how do you think Bruce expects the team to score? I really have no idea. Have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicVillan Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: I really have no idea. Have you? Kodija Edited July 22, 2017 by CosmicVillan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Just now, CosmicVillan said: Kodija Got it in one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Bruce seems to expect a one striker system where that striker makes and scores his own goal while everyone else avoids getting forward too much for fear of scoring themselves 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 9 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: I really have no idea. Have you? The problem isn't not trying to create chances. The problem is the execution. How many crosses are poor and cleared by first defender? How many balls over the top go to no one? How many through balls are over hit or cut out? This happens every game and the stats will read no chances created when in reality many should have been created. First and foremost the players need to improve there general play and if this down to Bruce to resolve than I accept he has to share the blame. I honestly think there is far to much emphasis on formations and lineups. These are professional players earning big money. If they are told to play a certain way that may not suit them it doesn't mean the should turn to shit!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa Stu Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 14 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: I agree Hogan has been poor so far, but he was scoring plenty before he arrived. He just doesn't suit our "style" of play and if we continue to play the same way, with virtually zero creativity, he'll be a waste of time. His way of playing is to run the channels and pick up through balls, which never arrive. I agree he doesn't do any of the things you list above, but I don't believe he ever has. We bought the wrong player for how we play. I feel a bit sorry for him really. Well as sorry as you can feel for a bloke who plays football and picks up a year's wages every week. The same can be said about McCormack mate, he has been the most prolific striker in this league for the last 5-6years. The issue with hogan is that he just goes completely missing. When McCormack is having a bad game (which if we are honest, it is more often than it should be) he will still be chasing down and trying to make something happen. Hogan just looks lost and for me offers very little to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Villa Stu said: Hogan just looks lost and for me offers very little to us. He's only played five games. Why do people always do this! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa Stu Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, praisedmambo said: He's only played five games. Why do people always do this! What did he do in those five (or thirteen) games for us last season? Has he shown any improvement so far in preseason? He has been awful for us and doesn't suit us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 23, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) I think you do have to look at his time at Forest to be honest. Failed to make any impact there at all. Are we to think he has sorted his head out in those few weeks before the end of his time then and now? I think he is probably shot and if someone else is willing to give us cash and get his wages off our bill I would take it and watch him fail to climb over someone else's gate from a comfortable distance. Edited July 23, 2017 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Was surprised that he wasn't included in the squad and I fully expect him to leave the club soon. Shame the transfer didn't work out but there are always duds when you sign players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, lexicon said: Was surprised that he wasn't included in the squad and I fully expect him to leave the club soon. Shame the transfer didn't work out but there are always duds when you sign players. Seems to be one signed purely on his goal scoring record rather than a good assessment on whether he'd be the right fit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Refuse to believe that 2 strikers who cost us nearly £30m are shit. Its the way we play, can't believe some people think we have a chance of promotion this season. Have you seen us play? You could stick the best poacher in the world in this team and he'd look shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Junxs said: Refuse to believe that 2 strikers who cost us nearly £30m are shit. Its the way we play, can't believe some people think we have a chance of promotion this season. Have you seen us play? You could stick the best poacher in the world in this team and he'd look shit He isn't shit, it's just with the money recouped Steve Bruce could sign 4 non goalscoring midfielders. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted July 23, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2017 21 minutes ago, Villa Stu said: What did he do in those five (or thirteen) games for us last season? Has he shown any improvement so far in preseason? He has been awful for us and doesn't suit us. Hogan has played 5 times which is an amazingly small sample size to make a judgement on a player. McCormack has played 13... but there's more to that story than just game time. But either way he's not lost his ability, but perhaps his motivation? Perhaps McCormack only flourishes in a side where he is the main focus, and perhaps you have to play like Leeds or Fulham did to get the best out of him, which ultimately did not get them promoted even with his goal scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 18 minutes ago, Villa Stu said: What did he do in those five (or thirteen) games for us last season? Has he shown any improvement so far in preseason? He has been awful for us and doesn't suit us. Preseason means absolutely nothing. Ok, looking at other stats it's maybe 9 starts and 4 sub appearances. I still think it's way too soon to write him off. He's obviously done well at Brentford and he is still new to the club. Since he's been here, we've had a bad run and he's been injured. I feel too much that people judge everything on a game by game basis. Bruce for example—people are ignoring the fact that his previous teams have been capable attacking wise and just we were uninspiring last season he's a clueless manager. Surely the context of us being shit for seven years up to his arrival might have some effect (for example)? In this light, I think we haven't got the best out of Hogan the way Brentford were, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. I have seen promising moments from Hogan and there's no way I'm writing him off—especially not based on 'no improvement in pre-season'. This is before the beginning of the season in a time when fitness is down. No player should be better in preseason than they are in the league proper imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Junxs said: Refuse to believe that 2 strikers who cost us nearly £30m are shit. Its the way we play, can't believe some people think we have a chance of promotion this season. Have you seen us play? You could stick the best poacher in the world in this team and he'd look shit Well we've done that with one of the best poachers in the league (Hogan) and he has indeed looked shit. For me, McCormack was perhaps a bit too specialist, he needs to play in a precise role that requires the manager to set the team up around him, that hasn't happened here under two managers so he has put in the sort of performances he put in for Leeds in 2012-2013 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa Stu Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, praisedmambo said: Preseason means absolutely nothing. Ok, looking at other stats it's maybe 9 starts and 4 sub appearances. I still think it's way too soon to write him off. He's obviously done well at Brentford and he is still new to the club. Since he's been here, we've had a bad run and he's been injured. I feel too much that people judge everything on a game by game basis. Bruce for example—people are ignoring the fact that his previous teams have been capable attacking wise and just we were uninspiring last season he's a clueless manager. Surely the context of us being shit for seven years up to his arrival might have some effect (for example)? In this light, I think we haven't got the best out of Hogan the way Brentford were, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. I have seen promising moments from Hogan and there's no way I'm writing him off—especially not based on 'no improvement in pre-season'. This is before the beginning of the season in a time when fitness is down. No player should be better in preseason than they are in the league proper imo. In all honesty mate I hope you are right and I am wrong, he has shown glimpses of something whilst also going missing at times. I hope he smashes it this year and he and Kodjia build a deadly partnership. At the same time though I don't think he suits our play and we don't have/haven't allowed our more creative players create for him. One thing is certain we need to get someone else firing along with Kodjia, whether that is hogan, McCormack, gabby, RHM, Davis or someone new I don't care as long as it happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa Stu Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, alreadyexists said: Hogan has played 5 times which is an amazingly small sample size to make a judgement on a player. McCormack has played 13... but there's more to that story than just game time. But either way he's not lost his ability, but perhaps his motivation? Perhaps McCormack only flourishes in a side where he is the main focus, and perhaps you have to play like Leeds or Fulham did to get the best out of him, which ultimately did not get them promoted even with his goal scoring. Hogan played 13 and McCormack about 18/19. McCormack also had the ability to bring other players in and got assists/created chances. Look how well he played with Dembele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I find the 'preseason means nothing' idea a bit confusing. There's a lot of people bigging up Terry based on preseason performances, but when someone does badly they get excused because it's 'preseason'. The answer IMO is in the middle, you can read into preseason but shouldn't really be the 'final say' on things. I must admit that I've found Bruce's tactics in preseason to be the same negative crap we saw last season, which does not bode well at all. But lets see how the first 5 or so games go... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: I find the 'preseason means nothing' idea a bit confusing. There's a lot of people bigging up Terry based on preseason performances, but when someone does badly they get excused because it's 'preseason'. The answer IMO is in the middle, you can read into preseason but shouldn't really be the 'final say' on things. I must admit that I've found Bruce's tactics in preseason to be the same negative crap we saw last season, which does not bode well at all. But lets see how the first 5 or so games go... I don't disagree. However, our two most influential players are missing ( prior to Terry)and 2 new signings, so its hardly representative of what is likely to line up against Hull. My suspicion is the fans that look for results before performances with be the more satisfied this forthcoming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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