Tony Xia (no longer involved with AVFC)

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

No I much prefer the clamour to demonise the Owner as a fraud and crook without having any information.

More exciting.

I'm amazed that after years of doug and lerner, fans will instantly buy into a club statement. One that doesn't even say we have solved all our problems, just that we should be able to. 

Is that all it takes? 

[TheStagMan]

4 hours ago, Pimlico_Villa said:

Sorry for being thick, but I don't get it?

I get it, but it's just a shit attempt at a joke.

[Vive_La_Villa]

19 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I don't get the point. Are you suggesting its not an issue if we don't know? 

It seems money has been an issue for months, just because we didn't know about it doesn't mean it wasn't an issue. 

 

Yes it is an issue. I never said it wasn’t. It just doesn’t mean we are about to go in to administration. 

If people didn’t think we were ****ed financially if we didn’t get promoted then they are just naive. 

22 minutes ago, snowychap said:

It hasn't been paid, yet.

I've made no comment about Xia 'screwing' anyone.

But I thought means of making payments were always in place?

 

I never said you made that a comment about Xia. I am making it. If the payment gets made it means there was always a plan to make the payment doesn’t it?  Or do you think Tony has acted to make the payment because it’s got out a HMRC payment is late? 

What are we even on discussing here. We’re all on the same side. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Vive_La_Villa

[Risso]

4 hours ago, Deisler123 said:

Let me clarify if what I mentioned before was unclear - the 50m is the maximum amount Xia's satellite company can loan over the future two years. These loan will be from Chinese banks (apparently) and will be backed up by the mother company (i.e. the one on the stock market).

Thanks, but not sure it's completely answered my question.  We already have an outstanding loan of £49m due to the parent company, that is due to be repaid now.  Is the £50m a new loan, ie new cash to be used as working capital now?  If so, is the original loan still in place, and does this mean that we now owe the parent company £99m?

[TheEgo]

2 hours ago, Fight Like Lions said:

It’s a £50m loan in sterling so no issue with transferring from China, the money is already in the right currency.

We don’t know for certain this is for Villa yet but hopefully it is. Possibly in exchange for some shares if the companies house thing is anything to go by.

I’m confused about the company status too because someone posted a link from the FT yesterday suggesting Xia had sold his shares in Recon and was now on his own??? Hopefully @Deisler123 can help us understand the current company structure a bit better.

 

Yeah I found the FT stuff and have been researching. Just seemed that @deisler123 is the person to ask as he's in China.

As for loan that's been approved. I don't get how it's still not under the restrictions of taking cash OUT of China. Why does sterling circumvent that rule HOW have have they been able to even get a sterling loan IN China? I couldn't seek approval to get a loan in Chinese currency in the UK surely? Doesn't make sense to me. I need to check the stock exchange. 

[GingerCollins29]

So confused and dunno what to believe.

 

Is Bruce getting a 50mill war chest? Let's buy Steve sidewall for 20 mill and 80k a week!

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

4 minutes ago, TheEgo said:

Yeah I found the FT stuff and have been researching. Just seemed that @deisler123 is the person to ask as he's in China.

As for loan that's been approved. I don't get how it's still not under the restrictions of taking cash OUT of China. Why does sterling circumvent that rule HOW have have they been able to even get a sterling loan IN China? I couldn't seek approval to get a loan in Chinese currency in the UK surely? Doesn't make sense to me. I need to check the stock exchange. 

The loan is in CNY. Deisler just converted it to GBP for ease. 

[foreveryoung]

2 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

I have no idea what any of this stuff means.

Let me make it a little clearer for you chap.

Basically, we're F***ed!

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

The loan is in CNY. Deisler just converted it to GBP for ease. 

Which I guess goes back to the question. How the hell is getting the funds out of China? 

In my opinion there was never an issue getting funds out of China. It just took longer than it should have to secure the funds and the club didn’t know there would be a rat that (rightly or wrongly) would leak the fact the loan hadn’t been secured yet. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Vive_La_Villa

[Deisler123]

 

2 minutes ago, TheEgo said:

As for loan that's been approved. I don't get how it's still not under the restrictions of taking cash OUT of China. Why does sterling circumvent that rule HOW have have they been able to even get a sterling loan IN China? I couldn't seek approval to get a loan in Chinese currency in the UK surely? Doesn't make sense to me. I need to check the stock exchange. 

If Xia really wants to send money to UK for his business, he can. It needs approval and it is not straightforward, but it can be done. The currency policy is just a control method, it is not a shut door.

The issue seems to be his cash flow as far as I can tell, which is caused by his business difficulty since early 2017. He is no where near bankruptcy from the stock market data, he is still rich. But he had lost a lot in last 12 months and his business model means that he has not much cash in his hands now. 

[TheEgo]

1 hour ago, Deisler123 said:

the parent company: 天夏智慧, listed on stock market (000662), whose chairman is Tony Xia.

The child company: 天夏信息技术, translated as Tian Xia tech info ltd., which is funded 100% by the parent company. 

Note that these companies are different from the companies in the UK. They are registered in China.

below is the summary of the relationship between all important elements of the group. I add notes for you to read (those in Chinese are not that important). Those numbers means 'control' in %. Pic source

So basically, on 5th June, Xia attended the executive board meeting for the parent co., whose minutes were announced. At that meeting, it was decided that the parent co. will 'sponsor' the child co. to borrow up to 50m pounds (equivalent, the loan will be in CNY, not in pounds) over the next two years. It is uncertain if this is linked to Villa, but highly likely so. 

It is not the parent co. who needs a loan, the board simply approved as the sponsor for the child co. to borrow over the next two years. The child co. is 100% owned by Xia. So effectively, Xia will be able to borrow 50m pounds backed up by the parent co. Whether he will use it on Villa, is another question.

Note1: All the boxes above the parent co. are its 'owners'. They are a lot of holding companies. Xia is its Chairman. It is unclear how much Xia owns, but he does not have much share from the stock market information I can see.

Note2: I believe the "Jian Tun Xia" you were referring to is in fact 'Jianjun Xia'. If you treat Jian Tong (literally means building unity) as two words, and Jian Jun (literally means building army) as two words, you can guess their relationship. Yes, they are brothers. And Jianjun (older bro.) has been the chairman of Recon holding (the box above RECON sports in the pic above). But it is believed Tony is in fact controlling this holding company, not his brother.

Thank you so much @deisler123 this really helps me get a sense of the structure, I've been trying but translating stuff doesn't really work when seeing a diagram and hierarchy. So xia has shares in the parent company? (what's the English name? But not many? Do you know any of the other owners? (we were lead to believe that xia owned the majority holding in the parent company.

As for the loan, I'm still confused how we get the money out of China as I know for a fact this is an issue? That's why (were told) that there are cash flow problems due to restrictions, yet a loan would indicate actual cash flow problems ie NO cash

Thanks again 

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

8 minutes ago, Risso said:

Thanks, but not sure it's completely answered my question.  We already have an outstanding loan of £49m due to the parent company, that is due to be repaid now.  Is the £50m a new loan, ie new cash to be used as working capital now?  If so, is the original loan still in place, and does this mean that we now owe the parent company £99m?

This is totally **** up if true! 

That means we owe £49m to the parent company, which is owned by a number of holding companies, none of which Tony owns a major shareholding. 

And then, on top, we will owe a further £50M to Chinese banks. 

Rejoice everyone...we’re saved!

@TheEgoplease can you post the FT link again? Cheers.

[snowychap]

16 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Or do you think Tony has acted to make the payment because it’s got out a HMRC payment is late?

I imagine that we've had to come to an agreement with HMRC about the payment that we owe because we owe them the payment. That it's 'got out' is neither here nor there. We'd have had to come to an agreement with HMRC whether or not this had become public knowledge. We'd only not have had to come to an agreement with HMRC if we'd made the payment to HMRC and therefore not owed them the payment.

As to why Xia had to ask for authority from the Recon board to go and attempt to get a loan (or loans) of up to £50m over the next two years, I don't know. I'd guess it has something to do with short and medium term cashflow problems that go beyond just one missed HMRC payment. That's a guess, though.

[El-Reacho]

Is Deisler not saying that Xia just has permission to use the parent company as security to go to the bank to borrow up to £50m rather than actually borrowing the money from the parent company? Presumably there's nothing valuable enough in the child company which owns AVFC to provide security to borrow any money. Doesn't sound great does it?

[TheEgo]

7 minutes ago, Deisler123 said:

 

If Xia really wants to send money to UK for his business, he can. It needs approval and it is not straightforward, but it can be done. The currency policy is just a control method, it is not a shut door.

The issue seems to be his cash flow as far as I can tell, which is caused by his business difficulty since early 2017. He is no where near bankruptcy from the stock market data, he is still rich. But he had lost a lot in last 12 months and his business model means that he has not much cash in his hands now. 

I've heard he has had trouble getting cash out of China (personally believe its cash flow as in lack of cash than gov restrictions. That's the narrative though. I know the regulations have been relaxed a little this year and slightly easier for companies, however it could still take a couple of months to apply for a transfer of funds from the various gov departments. 

 

Guys we are far from out of the woods. We are in big shit and we need to see what today's filing with Companies House is all about. Could be related to the 50m or different investment for a place on the board or debt converted to shares before a sale. Worrying times. 

Personally I think Xia is the Chinese Gatsby and has creating an idea/illusion of his wealth and ambition far in excess of his means. My trust has gone and I hope for a sale. Definite interest too and some good people. UTV 

[Keener window-cleaner]

2 hours ago, Deisler123 said:

the parent company: 天夏智慧, listed on stock market (000662), whose chairman is Tony Xia.

The child company: 天夏信息技术, translated as Tian Xia tech info ltd., which is funded 100% by the parent company. 

Note that these companies are different from the companies in the UK. They are registered in China.

below is the summary of the relationship between all important elements of the group. I add notes for you to read (those in Chinese are not that important). Those numbers means 'control' in %. Pic source

So basically, on 5th June, Xia attended the executive board meeting for the parent co., whose minutes were announced. At that meeting, it was decided that the parent co. will 'sponsor' the child co. to borrow up to 50m pounds (equivalent, the loan will be in CNY, not in pounds) over the next two years. It is uncertain if this is linked to Villa, but highly likely so. 

It is not the parent co. who needs a loan, the board simply approved as the sponsor for the child co. to borrow over the next two years. The child co. is 100% owned by Xia. So effectively, Xia will be able to borrow 50m pounds backed up by the parent co. Whether he will use it on Villa, is another question.

Note1: All the boxes above the parent co. are its 'owners'. They are a lot of holding companies. Xia is its Chairman. It is unclear how much Xia owns, but he does not have much share from the stock market information I can see.

Note2: I believe the "Jian Tun Xia" you were referring to is in fact 'Jianjun Xia'. If you treat Jian Tong (literally means building unity) as two words, and Jian Jun (literally means building army) as two words, you can guess their relationship. Yes, they are brothers. And Jianjun (older bro.) has been the chairman of Recon holding (the box above RECON sports in the pic above). But it is believed Tony is in fact controlling this holding company, not his brother.

Thanks a lot for your posts Deisler, I appreciate them a lot.

One thing I find really interesting with this are the "owners" of the parent company, you say they are a lot of holding companies. Is it in any way possible to get information about who owns these holding companies? As I understand it, it's the owner of these companies that really owns us. As Tony is the chairman of the parent company, I guess Tony either owns these companies, or has enough influence on them to be elected chairman? It would be very interesting to know though if someone else also partly owns us.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

"We're ****, we don't have money, we are going into administration :("

"Owner needs to pull his finger out and sort this out or sell up"

Owner sorts financing:

"How the f*ck is he getting money out of China?"

"We're still doomed, it's a loan, there was never a problem getting money out of china, Fraud"

Soooo... are we happy that we have secured finances or or not?

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Deisler123]

17 minutes ago, TheEgo said:

Thank you so much @deisler123 this really helps me get a sense of the structure, I've been trying but translating stuff doesn't really work when seeing a diagram and hierarchy. So xia has shares in the parent company? (what's the English name? But not many? Do you know any of the other owners? (we were lead to believe that xia owned the majority holding in the parent company.

2

If you look at the picture I posted, the parent company (Teamax, http://www.txgis.net/ ) is the box near the word 'parent co' to its right. All boxes above it are its owners, and the numbers indicate their shares.

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

"We're ****, we don't have money, we are going into administration :("

"Owner needs to pull his finger out and sort this out or sell up"

Owner sorts financing:

"How the f*ck is he getting money out of China?"

"We're still doomed, it's a loan, there was never a problem getting money out of china, Fraud"

Soooo... are we happy that we have secured our foreseeable future or or not?

 

Really? You just accept its all sorted because one club statement says it should be?

[TheEgo]

22 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

This is totally **** up if true! 

That means we owe £49m to the parent company, which is owned by a number of holding companies, none of which Tony owns a major shareholding. 

And then, on top, we will owe a further £50M to Chinese banks. 

Rejoice everyone...we’re saved!

@TheEgoplease can you post the FT link again? Cheers.

Been so long since I was on here that I forget how to post photos? Haha!! Wait until I'm at my pc