JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Really? You just accept its all sorted because one club statement says it should be? I've not accepted it's sorted just because a club statement says so. However you seem to accept that we're f*cked because the media say so? The point is, they are obviously trying to sort it, and the outlook is MUCH better than it was yesterday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I've not accepted it's sorted just because a club statement says so. However you seem to accept that we're f*cked because the media say so? The point is, they are obviously trying to sort it, and the outlook is MUCH better than it was yesterday. Not at all. I am worried based on the facts that are out there. Even if he sorts this problem there is not much to have faith in him solving more long term issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Deisler123 said: If you look at the picture I posted, the parent company (Teamax, http://www.txgis.net/ ) is the box near the word 'parent co' to its right. All boxes above it are its owners, and the numbers indicate their shares. Deisler123, you seem a very clued up and intelligent fella. In straight forward language, can you please tell us if the future looks good for us, average for us or, absolutely terrible. Basically, as a club, are we fire-fighting debts and in the meantime simply hoping that a miracle happens and we somehow get into the Premier League to sort out our problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said: Thanks a lot for your posts Deisler, I appreciate them a lot. One thing I find really interesting with this are the "owners" of the parent company, you say they are a lot of holding companies. Is it in any way possible to get information about who owns these holding companies? As I understand it, it's the owner of these companies that really owns us. As Tony is the chairman of the parent company, I guess Tony either owns these companies, or has enough influence on them to be elected chairman? It would be very interesting to know though if someone else also partly owns us. Sure. My pleasure. Among all owners, only the first tone: 索芙特科技: Softto, is actually a conventional company. It is like P&G, doing chemical stuff for daily use. All other owners are holding companies, and it is unclear who own them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgo Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, Deisler123 said: If you look at the picture I posted, the parent company (Teamax, http://www.txgis.net/ ) is the box near the word 'parent co' to its right. All boxes above it are its owners, and the numbers indicate their shares. I thought Teamax was sold? I'm sure it was reported he and mentioned by xia that he got 200m or so from the sale? Given my lack of Chinese. Is the Chinese writing at the very top names of individuals? I will look properly when at my pc as I can translate etc Thank you, you're very kind responding to everyone's queries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgo Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, Deisler123 said: Sure. My pleasure. Among all owners, only the first tone: 索芙特科技: Softto, is actually a conventional company. It is like P&G, doing chemical stuff for daily use. All other owners are holding companies, and it is unclear who own them. Got you now. The owners names are unclear. So could even be Xia if we're keeping a positive mindset? (personally doubt, but would be good. Are only Chinese nationals allowed to start a company in China? Have you heard of Socfin? This is the company that highlighted villa to Xia and we're to be on our board but allegedly failed their directors and owners test and were removed from the companies filings as directors. Is it possible they could be in and amongst that parent company? Hence the question about foreign nationals setting up businesses in China. I'm guessing not? UK press and fans talked of Gov involvement when we first heard about the deal. I think it's fair to assume this is BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheEgo said: I thought Teamax was sold? I'm sure it was reported he and mentioned by xia that he got 200m or so from the sale? 2 Basically, Xia sold his company to Softto who was then a listed company, with a super high value. Then Xia controlled Softto and changed its name to Teamax. This effectively makes his company as a listed company on the stock market. This is a bit similar to the concept of 'reverse merger', in comparison to the concept of IPO. 16 minutes ago, TheEgo said: Given my lack of Chinese. Is the Chinese writing at the very top names of individuals? I will look properly when at my pc as I can translate etc The top two rows are companies names. Some boxes in the middle and at the bottom are names of rich individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 7, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2018 I take the fact that a loan has been arranged to provide £50m as evidence Xia has no money of his own. He's probably borrowed the money to buy us in the first place and has now borrowed more to keep us afloat. I could have done that if I could have convinced some lender there was money to be made in it. He's a willow the wisp and once our finances are under control we will exist in the Championship on a shoestring budget funnelling back to China whatever profits we can make to service the debts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, TheEgo said: Got you now. The owners names are unclear. So could even be Xia if we're keeping a positive mindset? (personally doubt, but would be good. 1 I don't know. But it was reported that Xia actually controls Softto. 9 minutes ago, TheEgo said: Are only Chinese nationals allowed to start a company in China? Have you heard of Socfin? This is the company that highlighted villa to Xia and we're to be on our board but allegedly failed their directors and owners test and were removed from the companies filings as directors. Is it possible they could be in and amongst that parent company? Hence the question about foreign nationals setting up businesses in China. I'm guessing not? UK press and fans talked of Gov involvement when we first heard about the deal. I think it's fair to assume this is BS. 1 In China, there are three types of companies. Companies owned by Chinese nationals, those owned by foreigners and those co-owned. In China, if you are a foreigner, you cannot create a child-company in China. And for those co-owned companies, Chinese side has to be a company, not a person. These differences are mainly for legislation and accounting purpose. It used to be the case (back in 80s/early 90s) that a company with foreign investment could have tax relief (to promote foreign investment). No, I have not heard of Socfin before. I don't know anything about this so cannot comment on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgo Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Deisler123 said: Basically, Xia sold his company to Softto who was then a listed company, with a super high value. Then Xia controlled Softto and changed its name to Teamax. This effectively makes his company as a listed company on the stock market. This is a bit similar to the concept of 'reverse merger', in comparison to the concept of IPO. The top two rows are companies names. Some boxes in the middle and at the bottom are names of rich individuals. 26 minutes ago, Deisler123 said: Basically, Xia sold his company to Softto who was then a listed company, with a super high value. Then Xia controlled Softto and changed its name to Teamax. This effectively makes his company as a listed company on the stock market. This is a bit similar to the concept of 'reverse merger', in comparison to the concept of IPO. The top two rows are companies names. Some boxes in the middle and at the bottom are names of rich individuals. And still the parent company? (Teamax) do Softto still exist as a holding company (you mentioned them as one a few posts back or are they one of the same now? Temax/Softto = parent company? Without trying to complicate things further.... Where do http://en.reconig.com fit in on the diagram? Where the arrow points to Xia? It is widely thought that this is who owns us as its always mentioned and on the shirts and now trading ground. I don't see them in the structure? Cheers again. Its all about facts for me. Edited June 7, 2018 by TheEgo Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, sidcow said: I take the fact that a loan has been arranged to provide £50m as evidence Xia has no money of his own. He's probably borrowed the money to buy us in the first place and has now borrowed more to keep us afloat. I could have done that if I could have convinced some lender there was money to be made in it. He's a willow the wisp and once our finances are under control we will exist in the Championship on a shoestring budget funnelling back to China whatever profits we can make to service the debts. It is definitely wrong to say he has no money of his own. His business model is not conventional where people buy raw materials and make stuff and sell. His company is more like a holding company, relying on the success of its investment. He and his companies have decent shares on the stock market. It is probably true that he does not have a lot of cash. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEgo Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Deisler123 said: I don't know. But it was reported that Xia actually controls Softto. In China, there are three types of companies. Companies owned by Chinese nationals, those owned by foreigners and those co-owned. In China, if you are a foreigner, you cannot create a child-company in China. And for those co-owned companies, Chinese side has to be a company, not a person. These differences are mainly for legislation and accounting purpose. It used to be the case (back in 80s/early 90s) that a company with foreign investment could have tax relief (to promote foreign investment). No, I have not heard of Socfin before. I don't know anything about this so cannot comment on this. Thanks again. Just to share some knowledge with you http://www.socfin.com/en are owned by Chris Samuelson and Jamie Banfill. They are essentially consultants who facilitate investment, specifically in football clubs. They supposedly approached Xia and advised on the purchase (as well as the Chinese owners for West Brom) xia had intended to have both on his board of directors and Samuelson as vice chairman (Google him, has a chequered past) which has long since concerned people who suggest they are still involved, maybe in China. (I don't hold this view myself) They were contacts and friends with Wyness and responsible for him being villa CEO. Let's just say im glad Samuelson and Banfill never became directors and I'm glad Wybess is all but gone. Just some background for you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Loaning money to pay off debts It's like trying to put a fire out with petrol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Which I guess goes back to the question. How the hell is getting the funds out of China? Because it’s an excuse and Xia hasn’t got a pot to piss in! Money can be moved as long as it’s sanctioned. The reality is his companies have been struggling for 12 months and he is short on ready cash. Hence the loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted June 7, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, AshVilla said: Loaning money to pay off debts It's like trying to put a fire out with petrol Indeed, income cut, difficulty paying mortgae, get credit cards to pay mortgage... sorted right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, jim said: Because it’s an excuse and Xia hasn’t got a pot to piss in! Money can be moved as long as it’s sanctioned. The reality is his companies have been struggling for 12 months and he is short on ready cash. Hence the loan. I'm guessing, just like the others who have made up their minds. You have literally purposely skipped everything @Deisler123 has said right? Dear god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I'm guessing, just like the others who have made up their minds. You have literally purposely skipped everything @Deisler123 has said right? Dear god. Deislers telling comment that xia probably doesn’t have a lot of cash is the telling comment for me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 3 hours ago, mjmooney said: No such word. It's "boracic". Rhyming slang: "boracic lint" = "skint". I did not know the origin of that. Bloomin’ Cockneys! Although it must be in the Oxford dictionary by now? They let anything into it these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I'm guessing, just like the others who have made up their minds. You have literally purposely skipped everything @Deisler123 has said right? Dear god. Jim is not wrong in a literal sense. Xia is reportedly struggling in his business (but not the end of world type of struggle) and I don't think he has a lot of cash or cashable assets in hands. And it seems he will take loans to solve Villa's problem. But I guess the point is - this is 21st century, taking a loan is not a big issue, as long as you have assets/capital to support you. A loan of up to 400m CNY over two years is not that much compared to what he actually controls. I have never seen a successful cooperation which never taken a loan..... The question is: will he invest part of that money to Villa (this might be revealed by the information from gov.uk in a few days so let's see) and how confident he is in support Villa now (support now and look for a good sell v.s. support till promotion). Edited June 7, 2018 by Deisler123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Isn't socfin Chris samuelsons company ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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