Jareth Posted June 7, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2018 Just now, briny_ear said: That's a bold statement to make. We'll keep an eye on this as the days, weeks and months unfold! @Deisler123 has referenced the Chinese stock market and announcements for Recon two days ago - one of them is that they have taken out £50mill GBP - that has to be money for Villa. Easy for a journo to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jareth said: I think it means cash flow is sorted for the next 2 years - there will be major changes and we will cut our cloth accordingly, I expect the new CEO to be a right pitball. When FFP allows extra money to be put in, so next season that equals a £13 mill loss allowable (provided we meet it this year) at that point if Tony is not willing to invest then I will be a bit miffed. let's bally well hope so, what. Give us breathing room, to set up a plan that isn't so f**king stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Jareth said: @Deisler123 has referenced the Chinese stock market and announcements for Recon two days ago - one of them is that they have taken out £50mill GBP - that has to be money for Villa. Easy for a journo to check. Good news for Xia that he still has one true believer. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jareth said: I think it means cash flow is sorted for the next 2 years - there will be major changes and we will cut our cloth accordingly, I expect the new CEO to be a right pitball. When FFP allows extra money to be put in, so next season that equals a £13 mill loss allowable (provided we meet it this year) at that point if Tony is not willing to invest then I will be a bit miffed. A loan wouldn't help with FFP - surely it would go in the creditors column Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One For The Road Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, hippo said: A loan wouldn't help with FFP - surely it would go in the creditors column It will help to keep the club solvent though. Which now appears to have taken over from FFP as priority number one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Deisler123 Posted June 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, Jareth said: Recon have taken out a loan 2 days ago for £50million GBP This is not quite accurate. What happened 2 days ago was that, the executive board of Xia's company approved that the main company will sponsor the child-company to loan up to 50m pounds over the next two years. This does not mean that Xia has loaned 50m two days ago, but it does mean that Xia has had the approval to do so. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, villarocker said: That's all well and good for the next 2 years but then what, if we're still not in the Premier League? We'll just be a further 2 years down the line and in another £50m worth of debt. if Wyness is to blame for the mess we're in it's yet another example of how things goes tits up when the owner is not around to oversee that things are working properly. Ellis might have been an old control freak but at least he kept an eye on the day-to-day goings on at the club, which is pretty much what we drastically lack now. What makes you think that we'll stil be facing the same levels of debt in 2 years time? By the end of next season we will no longer be paying the following wages, loan fees and, presumably, staggered transfer fees from this season: Terry, Samba, Johnstone, Tuanzebe, Onomah, Snodgrass, Bunn, Gabby, Samba, Richards, Whelan and Jedinak. That's a huge chunk of debt that will be gone within 1 season, let alone two. All we have to do (and you'd hope that this recent contact with HMRC will be a sobering wake-up call), is stop bringing in players on £40k+, that are over the hill and/or cost a large transfer fee. Instead of bringing in a McCormack for £12m or a Chester for £8m, we'll bring in an 'up and coming' League One central defender for £500k and £30k p/w etc etc I do an internal facepalm every time someone suggests that these monthly £5m losses will continue indefinitely. Edited June 7, 2018 by Rob182 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post briny_ear Posted June 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) TBH, the latest statement doesn't even confirm we've paid our tax bill, just an "agreement" with HMRC "has been reached". I've spent enough of my life constructing weasel words that put the best possible gloss on bad situations to be able to recognise such words when I read them from someone else. (In fact, I regard that statement as weasel words from beginning to end.) Edited June 7, 2018 by briny_ear 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, Jareth said: Other major fact of the day, which if correct is HUGE - thanks to @Deisler123 - Recon have taken out a loan 2 days ago for £50million GBP - yes that's right, UK money, which if accurate tells us that Tony can keep the club going at least for another 2 years. You'd think the papers might try to verify that, but it's possibly not sensational enough for them. As for the likes of Matt Scott, predicting administration and financial mismanagement, and claiming massive journalistic scoops on the back of being fed info by bitter old Wyness - well yes there have been risks taken (thanks Wyness also), but as it stands, all bills have been paid. I get the feeling there isn't much to see here and the coup has run out of steam. Hope that money is put aside as a last resort. We should be looking to run within our means. Hopefully (if thats the right word !) the club will not now be forced to accept daft bids for Grealish etc. The goal shouldn't be premier league tv money - but cutting the cloth according to our needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 on the FFP issue - is it right that this is a 3 year rolling thing on losses? So as long as we survive the next year or two, the pressure eases off again? Just trying to work out the reality - if we have a big sale of players this summer and do bring in 40mi etc, we're not going to be facing that same bill next season are we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Deisler123 said: This is not quite accurate. What happened 2 days ago was that, the executive board of Xia's company approved that the main company will sponsor the child-company to loan up to 50m pounds over the next two years. This does not mean that Xia has loaned 50m two days ago, but it does mean that Xia has had the approval to do so. Great Info. Does that mean the cash is there if we need it - but we haven't yet drawn down it ? (a bit like the £19 in my currrent account which I am hoping to get to the end of the month without touching) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Jareth said: @Deisler123 has referenced the Chinese stock market and announcements for Recon two days ago - one of them is that they have taken out £50mill GBP - that has to be money for Villa. Easy for a journo to check. i am not sure it is easy to check to be frank. The reason why we know the stock market annoucements is that Xia's company MUST declare all board meetings minutes under legal obligations. However, it will be the satellite company which will attempt to loan up to 50m from banks, sponsored by the mother company. So I am afraid it is impossible to know what happens next, until the day when the club financial issue gets resolved (which is the sign of Xia investing that loaned 50m into the club). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Time to sell us to someone else; rinse and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Rodders said: on the FFP issue - is it right that this is a 3 year rolling thing on losses? So as long as we survive the next year or two, the pressure eases off again? Just trying to work out the reality - if we have a big sale of players this summer and do bring in 40mi etc, we're not going to be facing that same bill next season are we? I believe you're correct. The major problem with FFP seems to be the year we went down (2015-16), where we've reported a loss of over £80m i think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 He could just be lining up another bid for Millennium films with that £50m... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 7, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2018 20 minutes ago, briny_ear said: That's a bold statement to make. Harsh, you're the one who put it in bold! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Rob182 said: What makes you think that we'll stil be facing the same levels of debt in 2 years time? By the end of next season we will no longer be paying the following wages, loan fees and, presumably, staggered transfer fees from this season: Terry, Samba, Johnstone, Tuanzebe, Onomah, Snodgrass, Bunn, Gabby, Samba, Richards, Whelan and Jedinak. That's a huge chunk of debt that will be gone within 1 season, let alone two. All we have to do (and you'd hope that this recent contact with HMRC will be a sobering wake-up call), is stop bringing in players on £40k+, that are over the hill and/or cost a large transfer fee. Instead of bringing in a McCormack for £12m or a Chester for £8m, we'll bring in an 'up and coming' League One central defender for £500k and £30k p/w etc etc I do an internal facepalm every time someone suggests that these monthly £5m losses will continue indefinitely. That isn't debt, that it wages, just because they have come to an end doesn't clear any of the debt already incurred. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler123 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, hippo said: Great Info. Does that mean the cash is there if we need it - but we haven't yet drawn down it ? (a bit like the £19 in my currrent account which I am hoping to get to the end of the month without touching) 1) we don't know for sure that the £50m loan will be used to support Villa. However, considering the fact that the board meeting was held the same day when the saga emerged, it is highly likely so. It is possible that, soon after Xia received confirmation from the board, he acted to suspend Wyness. Then the unpaid tax thing emerged. Today the club confirmed that the tax bill is no longer a concern, which may be a sign of Xia having already found some money to resolve this (at least partially). 2) Getting £50m cash loan is not easy. £50m is the upper limit over two years. So quite possibly, if 1) is true, then Xia will try to get loan to fill the gap (tax bill and wages) first over the summer, and attempt to sell players to break even. I don't think we need £50m now to survive, mostly likely around 3-4m cash investment per month, before the income on the transfer market, if any. £50m may well be Xia's own worst-case scenario estimation of how much he will need to get the club going over the next two years. Edited June 7, 2018 by Deisler123 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlico_Villa Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, villarocker said: That's all well and good for the next 2 years but then what, if we're still not in the Premier League? We'll just be a further 2 years down the line and in another £50m worth of debt. if Wyness is to blame for the mess we're in it's yet another example of how things goes tits up when the owner is not around to oversee that things are working properly. Ellis might have been an old control freak but at least he kept an eye on the day-to-day goings on at the club, which is pretty much what we drastically lack now. I'd like to think, though, that in that period we can get the appropriate cost base in place. Recon are presumably stumping up the collateral, but the loan covenants will be applied against us. When you take out loans of that size, there are covenants that the Bank insist on maintaining, typically premised on the outstanding debt as a ratio of Operating Profit (Revenue minus cash costs, not the depreciation charges). If those covenants are not maintained on an ongoing basis, the Loan can be recalled immediately. Basically, it means we have another vested interest making sure that our costs don't spiral out of control. Seems like a positive, but you are correct: we still need a long term plan. From his post immediately after the POF, seems like Xia is fully cognisant of that. Edited June 7, 2018 by Pimlico_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 We do not generate enough money, and unless we get back to the PL or sell a player for £30m+ every year we will be well and truly ****. Taking our loans, reducing the wage bill etc will do nothing unless someone comes in and wipes that debt. By the time the likes of Richards, McCormack etc deals come to end it will be too late. We have seen it with Leeds. You are emptying the ocean with a bucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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