Next Manager/ Season

[The Fun Factory]

Joe Kinnear?

[Mantis]

10 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Yeah I know Mantis, and you know my view, we go around and around ! In many ways I want to leave it but I just don't get it.

So as I say, if you don't rate his achievements that much, fair dos', that's opinions, fine. I think his recent achievements justify him being considered.

But exactly how much evidence do you have that he is a bully ?  Because I just don't see it.  Leave out the Ostrich then. What do we have that says 'bully' ?

I don't want to put words in your mouth but, for example, do you include the Pat Murphy interview ?

Because I know a couple of guys that do - but myself, and another couple of guys I know, think he was spot on.  We think he was being bullied by Murphy  - and think he came across very restrained, very patient.  Now again, each to their own, but surely you can accept that it is just opinion, not fact ?  Certainly not enough to condemn a guy.We don't have even a millionth of the guys life to examine.  Isn't it harsh to utterly condemn someone in the type of position these Managers are in for coming across (to some) stroppy in an 'interview'. ?

Do you include the muttered 'prick' ?  If so, why ?   Why does muttering that make him a bully, he wasn't shouting it at a small child, he was muttering it about a professional person (and one who had indeed just made a pathetically feeble comment, as most of them do most of the time). Careless ? Yes.  Why bully ?

So that's the only 2 I can think of, my God I hope nobody ever takes my, or your, worst 2 or 3  moments and decides your character from it !

I'm not even talking about incidents with journalists. I'm talking about stuff like telling a Leicester fan to "**** off and die"* and trying to throttle James McArthur. Maybe bullying isn't the right word but it's sure as hell unprofessional.

*For the record, I think managers get a hell of a lot of abuse but managers shouldn't be responding to it like that.

But let's just get one thing clear, I don't rate his achievements either. That Leicester team were absolutely woeful for most of last season (like literally almost as bad as we've been this season) and a late surge shouldn't mask that fact. I think most people who don't want him are against his appointment because of his record as well.

I just think he's a very overrated manager to be honest.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Mantis

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, terrytini said:

Where people put Pearson down their list because compared to others on the List his acheivements are, in their view, not as good,(I would disagree with some, not others) fair enough IMO

I'm afraid those who do it for some sort of 'way he is' or 'way he speaks' reason make absolutely no sense to me.

Practically every Manager who ever achieved anything was half mad, or arrogant, or rude, or away with the fairies, or whatever.and calling someone a bird is a long way from that. And I, and a reasonable number (granted, not all) of my footballing chums, see in some of the other interviews a perfectly understandable, even likeable, disdain for the purile journalists, which we have seen from many other Managers over the years.

As one simple example, if that is the criteria, we can't appoint Mourinho either. 

The simple difference is, Mourinho is a very very good manager. What you're failing to see is that the criteria for many isn't that the manager is a nice guy, it's that if he ISN'T a nice guy, then he's good enough to justify it.

Pearson is neither a very good manager, or good enough to justify him being a massive prick.

He's a decent manager. He'd probably do an ok job. But he wouldn't do such a good job that it justifies "the way he is".

For example, for me Moyes is the standout candidate. Head and shoulders above everybody else. Now if he was the way Pearson is, then you would have a point. He'd be a complete psychotic prick with no respect for his own fans who assaults members of the opposition team, but he'd be by far the best man for the job. So you could then say "well he IS a dickhead, but he's also a very good manager who is by far the standout candidate"

 

BUT, Pearson is not the best man for the job. He's not a standout candidate. Not by a long shot, in my opinion.

So what you're left with is a handful of managers who are all the same sort of standard (Pearson, Hughton, Bruce, Dyche, for example). But of all of them, one is the aforementioned psychopath, and the rest are relatively normal human beings.

And in that scenario, the obvious choice is the non crazy people.

 

I understand that some people may rate Pearson good enough to justify his personality. Fair enough. They're wrong, imo. But I get that.
But the point I'm trying to get across isn't that people just don't want him because he's not a very nice person. It's because he's also nothing special to justify that. If Nigel Pearson was as good a manager as Mourinho, or any other top manager, then nobody would be batting an eyelid at his personality.

But he isn't. Not even close.

Nigel Pearson is not good enough to justify his personality.

[Mantis]

What I find strange is that some people acknowledge your assessment Stevo but still want him anyway because they think he'll "sort the players out".

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

but he's wellard ain't he he'll boot those lazy frenchmen up the arse and show them how it is done none of this croissant for breakfast shite its a full english and a pint and none of this reading bollocks its going down a mine or building a wall and its none of this using a gym its a twenty mile run at 6am son right time to do it the old fashioned way

 

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

4 hours ago, Xela said:

But he also got Leicester promoted and put together the bulk of the squad that is (hopefully) going to win the league, I think that's a positive for Pearson. I know Ranieri has done a magnificent job and I'm not taking anything away from him but they were showing great form at the back end of last season. Ranieri has harnessed that and carried it on to a wonderful effect.

I think Leicester's performance this season has improved Pearson's stock, not weakened it. But as some people on here don't like him, it will just get disregarded, plus as he's a 'PASHUN' (what an shit description) manager and they get sneered at by posters who at the same time like to sycophantically fawn over Garde's appalling tenure as our manager, just because he seems like a nice bloke.

 

You almost made me want Pearson. Then I remembered, he's a massive, massive word removed. I don't want that odious clearing in the woods anywhere near my club. There must be other managers with similar ability we can get? Surely?

I'd take Bruce over him every day of the week. And McCarthy, who whilst being nowhere near my first choice I actually think *might* deserve a shot at a bigger club. Has done a relatively decent job in the Championship on and off. Certainly more evidence for him than Pearson. Like I said, nowhere near my first choice, but over Pearson? **** right. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug.

[The Fun Factory]

Always had a soft spot for Mick Mcarthy. Anyone who annoyed Keane that much can't be all bad.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

4 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Always had a soft spot for Mick Mcarthy. Anyone who annoyed Keane that much can't be all bad.

He's won the Championship title. Twice. Has finished in the playoffs 4 times with 3 different clubs. Out of his depth at premier league level in the long term but yeah, a likable bloke too and vastly experienced. 

I'm not insanely pro Mick McCarthy, but I'm not sure if I understand the argument against him. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I'm guessing people noticed Bernstein said we want an English manager? I would imagine he means British. 

 

[Seat68]

Mick McCarthy would be the final nail in the coffin for me. I would be done with aston villa. 

[nnock1984]

For what it's worth, I think it will be Pearson and I am ok with that. I can understand those who aren't however the work he did with Leicester was magnificent. Even when they were doing poorly last season, they were still playing well. The negative press about him came at that time and I'm sure it must be quite stressful and therefore I can cut somebody some slack!

 

My only concern is that the majority of his key backroad staff are still employed by Leicester so we have no chance of getting them. Remi didn't get his backroom team either and so we were fighting a losing battle from the beginning. 

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, nnock1984 said:

 

My only concern is that the majority of his key backroad staff are still employed by Leicester so we have no chance of getting them. Remi didn't get his backroom team either and so we were fighting a losing battle from the beginning. 

That's another very good point, and absolutely key here.

We made that mistake with Garde it would seem.

[AshVilla]

We made that mistake with Sherwood and Uncle fester as well

We won't be getting promoted with Pearson or McCarthy

Our only chance is Moyes Bruce or Dyche but while we continue to dick around i fully expect Newcastle to swoop in when they go down for one of them

[Zatman]

well if Burnley and Hull get promoted then why would Dyche or Bruce leave? if dont get promoted I dont think I would want either of them since managing best squads in the league along with Boro

[sne]

One of my fears with a British manager is that they will have a preference towards British players.

 Meaning that the ones we have at the club will get yet another chance to prove themselves here.

I really don't wan't that, I wan't them gone. (Gabby, Westwood,Sinclair, Lescott, Richards, Hutton, Richardson...)

I'm in no way saying that this will happen, just that it is a fear i harbor.

Who knows what any new manager will do, but in my experience managers tend to prefer what they know, as in players from leagues and countries they've managed before.

Edited April 5, 2016 by sne

[pacbuddies]

Some of the managers I've seen being linked with us is woeful. Pearson, McCarthy, Bruce, Dyche, McLaren, Carver.

It's like being faced with a pavement full of dog shit and someone asking you which turd you prefer to slip on.

 

[Stevo985]

34 minutes ago, Zatman said:

well if Burnley and Hull get promoted then why would Dyche or Bruce leave? if dont get promoted I dont think I would want either of them since managing best squads in the league along with Boro

I agree if they get promoted then they won't come here.

But there is Dyche, Bruce, Karanka, Hughton, McCarthy etc.

They can't all get promoted, and any of them would have a decent crack at getting us up, imo. Chris Hughton not getting Brighton up, for example, wouldn't mean he's done a bad job.

[terrytini]

9 hours ago, Mantis said:

I'm not even talking about incidents with journalists. I'm talking about stuff like telling a Leicester fan to "**** off and die"* and trying to throttle James McArthur. Maybe bullying isn't the right word but it's sure as hell unprofessional.

*For the record, I think managers get a hell of a lot of abuse but managers shouldn't be responding to it like that.

But let's just get one thing clear, I don't rate his achievements either. That Leicester team were absolutely woeful for most of last season (like literally almost as bad as we've been this season) and a late surge shouldn't mask that fact. I think most people who don't want him are against his appointment because of his record as well.

I just think he's a very overrated manager to be honest.

Well thanks I do at least properly understand why you hate the guy now !

Okay,so not a bully then, but sometimes unprofessional.  I agree.

So all the stuff about his character boils down to not much really. 2 incidents in a, I don't know, 6 year Managerial career. Fair enough if that's what floats your boat.

But really its his achievements.

Well, he's won League 1 title and Championship title with Leicester, and got to 2 Championship play offs.  You say they were woeful last season.  When they beat Man United 5-3 ?  First team ever to come back from 2 down against Man U in the Premiership.......like us you say !!! since when !!

Another way of looking at their 'woeful' record is to say that the ONLY time in 5 years managing Leicester when they didn't do well was that bad run they had from about a third of the way through the season.  For 4 years before that and 2/3 of that season he did a very good job results wise. (Yes they did, 40 points from 27 games either side of the run of 10 losses). And look at them now, really a continuation of what he had already done - that's why people link him so readily to their current success, it follows on, it doesn't stand alone.

So hopefully I have answered what is puzzling you. Those who are happy enough to see him considered (no more than that, just be given a fair hearing ) think he has an excellent, up to date, record, and can see past his belligerent manner (and indeed wonder whether it might even help, we are such a feeble Club). Those who don't, have seen 2 (3?) incidents too many (!) and don't rate his record, to the extent that they have utter contempt for the man.

I know which seems the balanced view IMO.

[lp_villa830]

47 minutes ago, pacbuddies said:

Some of the managers I've seen being linked with us is woeful. Pearson, McCarthy, Bruce, Dyche, McLaren, Carver.

It's like being faced with a pavement full of dog shit and someone asking you which turd you prefer to slip on.

 

Sadly that's our reality now we are a Championship club in waiting. Just wait to see how depressing the transfer speculation thread becomes in the summer. 

[rubberman]

3 hours ago, nnock1984 said:

My only concern is that the majority of his key backroad staff are still employed by Leicester so we have no chance of getting them. Remi didn't get his backroom team either and so we were fighting a losing battle from the beginning. 

This is exactly the reason I don't want Pearson.