sidcow Posted March 10, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 10, 2016 The huge increase in wages is utterly unfathomable. With the players we signed there should have been a huge reduction. I mean if this is our wage bill with the crap we have why aren't other clubs posting crippling losses, West hams wages should be quadruple ours. It makes you wonder if there genuinely is some criminal activity somewhere with huge sums somehow being creamed off. If there isn't then the player transfer/negotiations are utterly and spectacularly incompetent and anyone remotely connected to the process should be sacked and never worked again. These accounts take in a period where we were one of the worst 3 teams in the league and only got out of it with a ludicrous run after Sherwood which was proved a blip. The reason we were that bad was because of the number of extremely poor, cheap players in the squad....... Only they actually weren't cheap. How can we be that bad with that many poor quality nobody players and yet still have a huge and increased wage bill. It just doesn't add up. This club is destroyed and utterly rotten to the core on the playing side and now it also seems on the financial side. It sickens me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 10, 2016 Moderator Share Posted March 10, 2016 Also, there's a line that says: Creditors, amount falling due within one year It's gone from (121,060,000) in 2014 to (49,326,000) this time. Is that our debt? Is that good news? A pearl in the poo? There's a later line that says: Net debt at 31 May It's gone from (189,498,000) in 2014 to (102.027,000) in 2015 Does that mean we've reduced our debt in the period by £87m? If so, how? And how can we have been £189m in debt ffs! What's a fair price for this business based on these figures? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Don't see how the fall in merchandising revenue is Fox's fault really tbh, if most people are like me then the reason I haven't bought anything Aston Villa related for a long time is due to the complete unadulterated shite we've been on the pitch and the apathy toward the club this has instilled in me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 10, 2016 Moderator Share Posted March 10, 2016 It looks like, in section 15, there's evidence of the writing off of £72.5m of debt to the holding company - am I reading that correctly? Ah - section 18 - £84m converted into equity. So, we lost £27m but we removed a big amount of debt? Is there a benefit to that in moving money from the debt column and putting it on the price tag instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted March 10, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted March 10, 2016 I'm always reminded when the accounts come out of how little I understand about accounting. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Not all bad news - the balance sheet on the whole looks healthier. Net debt has gone from £102m to £30.7m with most of that due to £84.9m of parent company borrowing converted to equity. At least on the debt side that is moving in the right direction! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 10, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 10, 2016 15 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I'm always reminded when the accounts come out of how little I understand about accounting. Accounts are very difficult to understand to be sure. My dad is a retired accountant who spent his career working in various small to mid sized local industrial firms. Maybe Randy can hire him for £1.5M or so a year to help understand it all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 27 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I'm always reminded when the accounts come out of how little I understand about accounting. The big reduction in net debt is excellent news. Basically net debt is the club's ability to pay everything back if it was all due right now. It has reduced by over £70m down to just £30m which is not much in big business terms. That is good, accounts are not as simple as just profit and loss. It's a a plus. The thing to keep an eye on is net cash flow from operations which is negative on this set of accounts. That gives an indication of short term viability. Essentially there is more cash going out of the business than in, long term negative cash flows from operations would suggest a struggling business and not a viable one. Cash flow from refinancing and shares etc can be misleading as loans between business and parent company can be confusing and rather creative at times and I do not have the financial knowledge to elaborate on it too much as it gets confusing! Overall net debt down great news, negative operational cash flow not ideal but by no means a disaster at all but not something you want to see year in year out. As long as your business has minimal or no net debt and has a positive operation cash flow your in pretty good shape. I'd say the accounts are healthier than last year despite a loss of 27m as odd as that sounds! No need for alarm. The accounts for a season in the championship will be the interesting one. We are in fairly reasonable shape. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) The P&L is king, the debt being converted into share equity is an entirely separate matter. Nobody is arguing that isn't a good thing, it was done in preparation for a sale that never materialised and still hasn't materialised and probably won't materialise with the P&L the way it is. Unless the owner has a drastic rethink of his asking price. We are a club that currently spends £140m a year heading into the championship where in all likely-hood turnover minus the parachute payments will be ~£40m. We are most definitely not in "reasonable shape". We're absolutely ****, as things stand. Edited March 10, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 10, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: It looks like, in section 15, there's evidence of the writing off of £72.5m of debt to the holding company - am I reading that correctly? Ah - section 18 - £84m converted into equity. So, we lost £27m but we removed a big amount of debt? Is there a benefit to that in moving money from the debt column and putting it on the price tag instead? Like I said earlier, I think it just points towards Lerner prepping us for sale. There's nothing to suggest it's going onto the price tag. The less debt we have, the more attractive we are to a potential buyer. Obviously we'd be more attractive if we were making money, but plenty of clubs don't make money. Not many clubs have very little debt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Increase in staff of 29 people in the commercial, merchandising and operations area. Commercial turnover down from £22.0m to £19.5m 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 On the wages, I'd guess that every single player that got offered a new contract with a relegation clause inserted responded with I'll have a pay rise plus a bonus for staying up, 25 man squad getting £100k a man to stay up that's £2.5m, then you add in pay rise clauses etc 10 of them renegotiate their deal, get £10k a week more for a pay cut clause, there's £5m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Fox said about the prospect of relegation "We have taken significant steps to ensure we can cope financially". Has he a cunning plan then? If so, for such a plan to succeed he would need to be "as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University". I very much doubt that this Fox is... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 11 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said: Increase in staff of 29 people in the commercial, merchandising and operations area. Commercial turnover down from £22.0m to £19.5m 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 6 hours ago, John said: Fox said about the prospect of relegation "We have taken significant steps to ensure we can cope financially". Has he a cunning plan then? If so, for such a plan to succeed he would need to be "as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University". I very much doubt that this Fox is... I am sure Rowan Atkinson in any of his many guises could do a far better job than any of the clowns in suits at Villa Park! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 If every match goer and season ticket holder put in a couple of grand? We should buy Lerner out, I'd waste my money on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 11, 2016 Moderator Share Posted March 11, 2016 1 hour ago, PompeyVillan said: If every match goer and season ticket holder put in a couple of grand? We should buy Lerner out, I'd waste my money on it. 40,000 people looking for about £160m (to make the sums a bit easier) - four grand apiece. Easy peasy. Can't see it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 11, 2016 Moderator Share Posted March 11, 2016 So, accountant types - you've seen the figures, based on the accounts for that period, what do you think a reasonable price for this business is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted March 11, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 11, 2016 20 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Guys, these figures are up to MAY 2015! Those being so quick to blame Fox for this are being a bit harsh as he wasn't appointed until halfway through that year. Worryingly, it also doesn't include our summer signings Fox was appointed 21st August, so 9 months of the year was his and he was with us for almost the full season. He couldn't effect sponsorship but commercial is more ongoing and its decline can be fairly laid at his door. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 So, accountant types - you've seen the figures, based on the accounts for that period, what do you think a reasonable price for this business is? If it was purely a normal business, I'd say a pound (£1) plus take on of the £80 mill debt was more than fair. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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